" US Policies of aggression, nuclear arms, nuclear weapon development, nuclear weapon use threats, and missile shields will only serve to antagonize China, Russia, and some Middle Eastern countries. The inevitable event will be one or many nuclear weapons fired against the United States in the very near future. The only thing that can stop this is for the globalization movement to stop its power grab and for native peoples to be given equal voice in institutions like the United Nations. The native peoples are the moral reserve of humanity, not the rich overbloated bankers, politicians and royalty. The world needs to come together to end racism against religions and ethnicities. We should start with Iran and immediately. The Third Major shaking of the earth on US soil was prophesized by the Cherokee long ago. Its time to listen to the native wisdom again, and let go of the snake oil politicians who are only concerned about themselves. "

" America has lost its self-determination as the government has been hijacked from its inhabitants by elite factions in Israel, Saudi Arabia and Europe. America no longer operates with self-preservation as a goal. In parallel, Israel is leading and sometimes following on the same suicide path. "

" Most americans have forgotten the old adage, "If you live in a glass house, you shouldn't throw rocks." The lack of collective wisdom and common sense as a nation will be our demise. "

" According an AP article, "The Iranian parliament said the US Army and the CIA were terrorists because of the atomic bombing of Japan; the use of depleted uranium munitions in the Balkans, Afghanistan and Iraq; support of the killings of Palestinians by Israel; the bombing and killing Iraqi civilians and the torture of imprisoned terror suspects." A statement signed by the 215 members who voted for the resolution reads, "The aggressor U.S. Army and the Central Intelligence Agency are terrorists and also nurture terror." "

" Depleted Uranium will serve the purpose of turning the world community against the US in future world confict certainly after the coming US-Iran war. In light of the use of DU in the Middle East and Afganistan, the world community will destroy the United States and Israel. This is ultimately the plan that will serve the interests of the One World Government and New World Order. "

" Although DU has about 60% of the radioactivity of the natural uranium for an equal mass of substance (Cantaluppi and Degeto, 2000), elevated uranium activity concentrations have been observed in most of the surface soil samples and all of the biological samples collected in Kosovo. In some soils, elevations of even seven thousand times higher than the background uranium level have been observed. "

" Many know DU ammo has been fired on military ranges many times since the Davy Crockett missiles were tested. It is difficult to prove and that is why testng is necesary. "

" The Styker SEIS (address found in earilier post below) states that there are "45 different sites on Schofield Barrack that has HIGHER than background gamma radiation". They don't admit in their report HOW MUCH HIGHER than Background radiation the levels were. PROOF Schofield is CONTAMINATED with radiation material. What could be the source of this radioactive contamination other than DU? I admit there could be other sources but they do admit that half of the soil samples collected contain U238? Soil samples are dust samples. And if the military does live fire training on this radioactive CONTAMINATED artillery range it makes perfect sense the RADIOACTIVE DUST particles will become AIRBORNE and drift over our communities!!! Stop all live-fire training until comprehensive transparent testing can be verified by independent experts!!!! "

" I think it's very simple and very understandable Kem why at first the military thought there was no DU used in Hawaii. First of all, I would assume they were concerned mainly with the question of actual DU weapon testing, not peripheral uses such as for the Davy Crockett. Secondly, that system was classified, up until when I don't know, but surely that had an effect on their ability to readily obtain and/or share that information. ~~~ I'm glad to see that you recognize the value of the most benevolent world power in the history of the planet having effective offensive and defensive weapons. My position is that this issue should be dealt with responsibly, and that the institution that is surely MOST to thank for your current security and standard of living PERHAPS should be given a little more benefit of the doubt. To wit: Quote: "As a LONG-TIME ANTI-NUCLEAR ACTIVIST, I’ve learned that outsiders seeking justice can only hope to change government policy by having truth on our side. We abandon credibility and will be dismissed in the halls of power when we present unsupported speculation as scientific fact." ~~ Source of quote and much more: http://www.serve.com/nukeresister/du-disinfo.pdf "

" I am glad you finally agree that you do not mind if testing for DU is done. You did not address the ssue of why did the government deny DU was ever used in Hawaii? Why deny if there is no danger? """""""" Finally, I do not wish to see the military move out of any of the bases in Hawaii. On the contrary, I believe the bases are vtal for the security of the United States. """""""" Just don't expend any more DU ammo on the islands and attempt to clean up any that may be found. "

" Have I addressed the "real issue"? Well yes, I have actually, in depth, and from several angles. Apparently you've chosen to ignore this Kem, and the dozens of links I've provided to back up assertions I've made, and to refute yours. "Has DU ammunition polluted areas of your state with dangerous ionized radio-active particles of DU dust"? Certainly not, according to all evidence produced so far. Spotting rounds don't make "dust", and even if they did, it would be long gone decades ago. ~~~ But the larger point is this: Even IF actual DU weapons WERE tested on Hawaii ranges, and henceforth there existed the accompanying dreaded dust, according to the vast majority of scientific consensus on the matter, it STILL wouldn't be a significant health threat. ~~ Am I against testing? No, not really. I don't believe that's been a part of my argument at all. Test away. My problem, knowing the anti-DU movement like I do, is that NO result short of recommending immediate evacuation of the military from Hawaii will satisfy them. And from reading all the other reports, evaluations, etc. from around the world where DU dust ACTUALLY HAS BEEN PRODUCED both in practice and in actual war situations, the conclusions have been COMPLETELY at odds with the school of thought that would have you believe there's nano-particles buzzing around out there with the same determination to invade your body as a mosquito. ~~~ Are there "many other highly qualified doctors and scientists who state DU nano-particals are deadly for life"? Maybe a handful of scientists-turned-activists in the sense you're conveying, but in reality most unbiased scientists understand that the important factor to consider is the dose. There's no scientific evidence that uranium or DU inhaled or ingested in any but the most extreme and unlikely amounts is particularly harmful, at least no more so than the hundreds of other contaminants and radiation we all encounter daily. ~~~ I've addressed the issue of outdated and likely overly cautious warnings put out by NATO and our military. First, you're overstating the direness of those warnings, and second, you're ignoring the more extensive and sophisticated studies that supersede those warnings. An anti-DUer will eagerly trumpet recent studies about large doses of DU harming human cells in Petri dishes, or rats in cages, but you're unwilling to accept that more modern investigations about the realities of DU exposure potential and its likely subsequent effects on complete human systems might be used to modify the warnings and procedures regarding DU exposure. "

" As everyone can see, Skeptical refuses to address the real issue, which is: __Has DU ammuniton polluted areas of your state with dangerous ionized, radio-active particles of depleted uranium dust? """"""""" Did he answer that simple question, which is: Would there be ANY harm for independent testing, to determine, if there is ANY DU pollution, which could cause serious medical problems for any and all citizens? """"""""" Of course he didn't answer, instead he harps once again on the issue of the credibilty of Moret and others.___ Moret is not the only one who states ionized DU nano-particles are deadly for life. ___ There are many other highly qualified doctors and scientists who state that it is.____ Skeptical also does not answer the charge, that NATO and our military, have published information for the troops, which states inhaling DU will cause very serious medical problems. """"""""" Skep stays on the same old government's spin, that DU is harmless. If so, why is he against testing, to determine if it has polluted some areas of your state and put you and your children in harms way. ___ "IF" DU is harmless, even if detected what would the problem be? """""""" Support Linda Kroll, she and her associates are not attempting to harm anyone, help her to have independent, comprehensive testing for presence of DU. "

" Dr. Skeptical of Psychiatry...Is there no end to the amount of non-expert expertise that you are willing to make nefarious statements like prescribing meds and DU for the health of our citizens? Or do you take all your statements from the idiot box's Bill Maher without thought. If you want to question activists ability to question reality, start with yourself and lead by example. Like I said before, your chain of command, Rumsfeld said that a missile hit the pentagon. Don't argue with your chain of command little peon. "

" Now that Leuren Moret's little video showing her taking advantage of a very uncurious, uncritical and evidently like-minded reporter has been mercifully and quite rightfully removed, it's time to move on to lighter fare: ~~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qxOljd9oOzo ~~ Moret, Rokke, Dragonslayer and others should take careful note of the Paxil reference. (1:47 mark) "

" EXCELLENT points, DRAGONSLAYER."""""""" For any who may have doubts about the dangers of DU, I would ask they answer this one simple question before they post any negative comments here on the subject. """"""""""""" What earthly harm would there be, in doing exactly what Linda Kroll is asking for, in regards to DU testing on your homeland? """"""""""""" Answer that one question, any who may be skeptical. """"""""" If the tests turn out to prove DU particles are not present, the subject should be closed. On the other hand, if the testing proves DU is present, then someone tried to hide the truth. ____ If so, why? ____ If DU is harmless, why deny it was ever used? "

" The Stryker Brigade SEIS is published in July 2007. See http://www.sbct-seis.org/ ~~~~~ Chapter 3 page 7, Depleted Uranium.“Forty-five separate locations showed Gamma levels higher than background…In total nine samples were collected (six soil samples and three fragments)…Laboratory analysis indicated that three soil samples exhibited uranium-238 above background levels. Additionally, spectroscopy analyses confirmed that the three fragments collected are comprised of DU.” ~~~~~~This is what the Army is admitting to on Schofield Barracks. 45 different sites with higher than background gamma radiation!!! They are just begining tests on Pohakuloa. Will their tests be transparent and verified by independent experts? We will accept nothing less. I advocate truth in testing. "

" Thanks for tying together the war, halliburtan, and the US National Interest to take Iraq's oil resources. By the way, Donald Rumsfeld — former Secretary of War and PNAC member; close friend of Cheney; was at Pentagon on 9-11; once slipped and said “when that missile hit the Pentagon” "

" Hey, didn't you get the message that no one believes anything you write? That's the same exact wording you used on two other strings. """"""""" As a matter of fact, got that info from a London newspaper. """"""""" Yeah, Halliburton does real good, they picked up about half of the tax payers money spent on the war in Iraq. Not surprised at all that someone like you supports them. "

" Don't tell me. It's on the Internet, right? Smells like something you'd read in a Leuren Moret American Free (Nazi) press article, somehow. ~ http://tinyurl.com/m5mhy ~ Trouble is, the only apparent connection between Halliburton and AWE is through Brown and Root, which was part of a consortium that managed AWE, but only until 1999. After that, no Halliburton. ~ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atomic_Weapons_Establishment ~ Not that there'd necessarily be anything wrong with Halliburton managing your company....you'd probably be paying three times what you do for gas without their expert service and support of the oil industry. "

" Another sheep bleet. """"""" Radiation readings taken from air samples in the U.K. (that somone recently mentioned here), Are carefully taken by a company named "Halliburton". Anyone ever heard of them? """"""" That "do it all" with no contract bids company, is closely connected to arms manufacturers and the Bush family. Wonder what the test results actually were? "

" So I am finally convinced, its ok to spread toxic radioactive waste across the landscape for freedom and democracy. I know that the quality control is very stringent where DU weapons are manufactured, and only high grade "depleted" uranium is utilized. It would be preposterous to think that the weapons industry would mix in transuranic wastes to their "depleted" nonradioactive uranium... It just wouldn't make sense. Also the military always has human health and environment as its highest priority because they are filled with loving people that truly wish the best for everyone. Rad control must be very stringent where no DU material used in any weapon would provide a higher dose that what was actually required to do the job. I am sure that the government has such strict standards on the radioactive levels of the materials used in DU weapons because the government and military has never experimented on its own people and can be completely trusted. Its great to have a mind of a sheep because I can rest peacefully each and every day. "

" There's no evidence that any DU was ever "vaporized" to any significant degree in Hawaii, or even if some was, that it would somehow be subject to being resuspended to any measurable, let alone dangerous degree. I suspect Lindafaye has raised her bar of satisfaction to an unattainable height, because her "leading authorities" are most likely agenda-invested anti-nuke activists, who would never endorse any but the most DU-damning of reports. ~~~ Let's see if she's willing to name these "authorities", and hopefully she's come to understand that Moret and Rokke don't qualify as such. ~~~ Here's a report from a practice range in the U.K., where DU actually WAS/IS used in such a manner as to produce the dreaded vapors. Even here, the conclusion reached was: "There is no evidence to indicate that members of the public are exposed to a radiological hazard from the terrestrial environment as a result of test firing DU ammunition at the site." ~ http://tinyurl.com/2qqbk9 ~ (2004 terrestrial environmental survey) ~~~ I hardly think one could expect a conclusion any MORE condemning of DU contamination regarding areas (Schofield and Pohakuloa) which by all accounts were never used for test firing actual DU weapons, but only the CLASSIFIED (hence the initial statement of no DU use) Davy Crockett munition, in which DU was used apparently only to simulate the weight of a real nuke weapon. I'm speculating now, but I would assume that such a weapon system was designed more for the delivery of the mini-nuke to a general area in an arcing, relatively slow speed fashion. The 40 year old impact would not have produced DU aerosols, because it wasn't fast enough and it wouldn't have hit an armored target, just dirt. A DU-tipped weapon is fired at high speed in order to hit specifically an armored tank accurately, and only then is it subject to producing significant quantities of "nano-particles", due to the pyrophoric action typical of DU. "

" Thank-you Kem. I believe readers can decide and see the truth of the dangers of DU dust. I'll say again....The military's tests need to be transparent and verified by independent experts and they need to test for vaporized radioactive dust particles. ~~~~~We are in agreement that solid form of DU doesn't pose much of a public health hazard. However the military's talking points are only related to solid form of DU and they ignore what our concerns are about the vaporized radioactive dust.~~~~~ There are activists involved here in Hawaii that have connections with the worlds leading authorities in low level radiation and they will be contacted for verification of any tests the military conducts. We will not believe any military or State of Hawaii Public Health report without this verification! Stand with us to protect Hawaii! Lindafaye www.protecthawaii.ws "

" I have been accused of not providing websites about the subject of DU. actually I have offered some but every time I have they were critized by another blogger. """"""""""" I will state once more. If you really do care about the issue, just go to an internet website and type in the words. ______ depleted uranium_____ A screen will open and there are over 400,000 pages to study on the issue, written by hundreds of qualified doctors. """""""" No one has to listen to me, Linda Kroll or anyone else who blogs here. """""""" If you care, read them and remember ____ governments have reasons for denying important things. Agencies such as WHO never addressed the issue of inhaling tiny particles of ionized DU. """"""""" Make up your own minds, you be the jusde of if DU is a serious health problem. It's your land, your children and your health that is the issue. "

" Kem, after much prodding, you finally posted a link supposedly proving a "dramatic increase" in childhood cancer. However, YOUR link only reflected the same data I gave you way back when you first brought it up. Now you're back to saying "just look on the Internet". You said: "And no one can say autism is not near epidemic levels, a disease that was very rare thirty or more years ago." Autism may or may not have increased in incidence, as diagnosis criteria has not been a constant. Cancer is cancer, but autism is one thing to one doctor, and another to another. (although better detection techniques might be causing some increase in incidence numbers from later age groups for childhood cancer as well.) ~ http://edition.cnn.com/2003/HEALTH/conditions/03/02/autism.ap/ ~ You said: "In addition, many children now have cancer but are eventually cured or the disease is put in remission, they death rate does not go up in those cases." We're talking about incidence Kem, not death rate. Childhood cancer SURVIVAL rates HAVE "increased dramatically in the last 20 years". You said: "Don't say cancer was common in children forty or more years ago, because it was not." It think it's safe to say that childhood cancer may have been slightly more rare 40 years ago, but not dramatically so. If the incidence was only 18 per million less 30 years ago, one might logically guess another 5 or 6 cases/million less 40 years ago. Childhood cancer has always been rare, and remains so today. ~~~ Regardless, I still don't understand what scientific or logical basis you're using to tie it to DU, of all things. Moret fancies herself an epidemiologist as well as an international expert on DU and a world renown geo-scientist, and she thinks that increases in diabetes are caused by increased radiation, and DU, of course. Like you, she ignores differences in reporting and diagnosis criteria, awareness, and other more likely factors such as diet and inactivity. "

" Aloha Kem Patrick and Dragonslayer anyone reading this blog can see Skeptical for what he is. There are enough medical and science experts who have come forward to explain the physics of how DU might act if it were burned,vaporizes and carried in our air. I believe these experts and am an advocate of honest testing and disclosure of the findings. The military records have admitted DU is dangerous and harmful but they keep using it. Now they are in too deep to admit their mistake that they are the ones using weapons of mass destruction upon the world unleasing a plague like never seen before in the worlds history. ~~~~~Einstein knew the theory of relativity worked long before he could prove it.~~~~~All we want is honest transparent testing~~~~~Is that too much to ask for?~~~~~ No it is not for people who care about our planet and the generations of people who will follow us. Thomas Jefferson said "All tryanny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent." We have been silent for too long Thank-you Kem and Dragonslayer never stop speaking the truth!!! You are my heros~~~~~ DU Truth Teachers. Lindafaye www.protecthawaii.ws "

" I'm not ducking out of anything, I have nothing to hide nor anything to gain here. I gave you one website about childhod cancers, there are many more that are in direct conflict with what you state on the issue. And no one can say autism is not near epidemic levels, a disease that was very rare thirty or more years ago. In addition, many children now have cancer but are eventually cured or the disease is put in remission, they death rate does not go up in those cases. Don't say cancer was common in children forty or more years ago, because it was not. >>>>>>> All I wish to see is the truth about DU come out. >>>>>>> You Skeptical sure make it clear that you have an agenda, what is it you fear in this matter of Linda Kroll and her associates having fair and comprehensive tests of DU levels conducted? >>>>>> Finally, for one such as you, who plagiarazed a doctors report on another string here, in an attempt to fool readers that you were a cancer specialist and then attack me in the manner you do is amazing. >>>>>> Had any college student submitted a paper such as you did for any class, they would be expelled. You make snode remarks about ;my spelling and other errors with flaws in th ewebsite addreses, minor nitpicking fo rany reason to discredit me and any others who disagree with you. For one thng I do have a very difficult time with my spelling here, I lost an eye in Vietnam and have macular degeneration in the other, I read with a great big magnifying glass and it takes me an hour or more ot write a comment like this one and then correct every error. >>>>>>You have it your way, for whatever sick reasons they may be.____ I don't care. ____ I do care about your state as much as I do mine, any all of the others, and the people who live there. "

" Hmmm....interesting Kem. You've presented nothing whatsoever that justifies your claim as to "dramatic increases", even though your artistically placed quote marks might fool some. ~~~ Of course the fact that cancer is a leading cause of death among children, second only to accidents I think, does not at the SAME time mean that there has been "dramatic increases" in childhood cancer incidence, as you keep claiming and keep failing to prove. In fact, at the site YOUR site uses for reference, The National Children's Cancer Foundation, the very same statistics and analysis I INITIALLY pointed out (SEER) are quoted, because the NCCF used SEER. (I'm starting to think they're a pretty good source): "The incidence, or frequency that cancer is diagnosed, has risen since the 1970s for some types of childhood cancer, but rates have been fairly stable in more recent years." And, as I pointed out earlier, this "rise" amounts to perhaps 18 cases of cancer PER MILLION children over some 30 years. ~~~ Kem wrote earlier: "BTW you assume wrong Skeppy. It's the National Childhood Cancer Society and they do state, cancers in children have risen 'dramatically' in the past 20 years." ~~~ I see why you're ducking out now, because I think you've realized just how erroneous that statement was, and even I missed just how erroneous until now. In fact, according to all sources, INCLUDING YOUR OWN, childhood cancer has been FLAT OR DECLINING FOR ABOUT THE LAST 20 YEARS. We're still not really clear on whether there really exists an organization actually called "The National Childhood Cancer Society", and we're even less clear about why you've focused so laser-like on perhaps one of the most unlikely causes of childhood cancer. "

" Koodos to Kem for his childhood cancer discussion. Sorry that Skep doesn't have any real compulsion to be concerned about american children because he is more concerned about the viability of US weaponry and the war machine. Of course, DU explosions at Lawrence Livermore will have affect on 1.8 Million living in Tracy and greater San Jose. What academics and researchers are probing into the health effects of LLNL? Probably none. Does Skep care enough about children in Nor Cal to suggest that studies need to be undertaken? Of course not. Skep is a scam artist and without soul. It is so obvious its comical. Keep on showing your true colors skep. It is very illuminating to see how the military beaurocracy disillusions itself. "

" The link is losted here. All I did was Google and ask for childhood cancer. From the childhood cancer foundation. >>>>>>>>>>>>> It begins with these words.""""" "Today, despite amazing reseach progress, cancer kills more children than any other disease". Cancer rates in very young children are increasing yearly, autism is nearing epidemic levels. Both diseases in children were not at all common 40 years ago. DU in ammunition testing on a large scale, began in the mid 60s in the United States. """""""""" I am tired of replying to you, for you are of a mind set that is as it is. I'm ending the discussion now. http://www.kidsnkamp.org/about-facts.asp "

" I'm sorry Kem, but it doesn't look to me like there's any actual site for the "National Childhood Cancer Society". There are references to this organization, but the actual links lead you to the "National Children's Cancer Society", or the "National Childhood Cancer Foundation". Both these sites and all others I've seen either refer to the numbers I gave you from SEER, or they provide similar numbers. ~~~ You're still welcome to provide an exact link, but until you do, I'm going to assume your reluctance is due to the fact that you don't really have anything. ~~~ Your refusal to simply provide a link to what you seem to believe is a credible source which backs up your dire characterization about childhood cancer is rather interesting, especially considering the general dearth of references provided by you, and the dozens of links I've provided to back up what I've claimed, or to refute what you have. ~~~ But perhaps what's causing the confusion here is that indeed, there has been approximately an overall 13% increase in childhood cancer since 1975, and some people might look at that number and describe it as being a "dramatic" increase. But because childhood cancer is so relatively rare, this number translates to an increase of only about 18 children PER MILLION, (or 2 per one hundred thousand) and the incidence has been flat, or declining for some age groups, since 1985. Hardly a rallying cry, and ESPECIALLY hardly a sensible rationale for blaming DU, of all things. These numbers almost seem like they're within the margin of statistical error and natural variability, for heaven's sake. ~~~ Is it more "sick" to simply point out the overwhelming consensus within the scientific and medical community, which is drastically at odds with that put forth by folks like you, Lindafaye, Moret and Rokke, or is it more "sick" to make an post irrational, erroneous and unsubstantiated statements and pictures that enrage and inflame the emotions of billions of people? There MIGHT be a fire somewhere in the theatre, it's POSSIBLE, people do carry lighters and paper and tissue, but there's been no smoke and no smell, and no one's been burned. Do you still yell "FIRE"? "

" BTW you assume wrong Skeppy. It's the National Childhood Cancer Society and they do state, cancers in children have risen 'dramatically' in the past 20 years. Find it, it's on the internet and any who are reading this can easily find it. """""" I do wnder who it is that is paying you to continue to post your blogs. If it is just for your pleasure, ___ you are sick. I only do so because I wish to learn the truth about DU. Medical urine tests and soil sampling tests will go a long way to answer the many questions. No fair or honest person would deny that. "

" Stop your nonsense Skeptical, what I wrote was absolutely correct. What is your agenda, what is it you fear here? """"" You never answered one of my fair questions. Your replys always skirt the issue and attack. When you err, you apologize and then give an excuse for your mistake and blame the one who pointed out the error. """"" The comments Linda Kroll posted are sensible, honest and full of common sense. You must be a sick person, ____ of course Solipsists always are. I do pity you. "

" Sorry, you're right. You didn't use the term epidemic specifically referring to childhood cancer. Although I think it's fair to say you left that impression, I'm all for accuracy. Thanks for the correction. But from what I've been able to gather, your current characterization -- "risen dramatically" -- is hardly an apt description. I see the "National Children's Cancer Society", but not the "National Childhood Cancer Society", so I assume that's what you meant. I don't see any reference on their site to "dramatic rises". Please, point me to a SPECIFIC PAGE where this increase is documented. And please look at this study: ( http://jnci.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/91/12/1051 ) Quote: "CONCLUSIONS: There was no substantial change in incidence for the major pediatric cancers, and rates have remained relatively stable since the mid-1980s. The modest increases that were observed for brain/CNS cancers, leukemia, and infant neuroblastoma were confined to the mid-1980s. The patterns suggest that the increases likely reflected DIAGNOSTIC IMPROVEMENTS OR REPORTING CHANGES. Dramatic declines in childhood cancer mortality represent treatment-related improvements in survival." End quote, emphasis mine. ~~~ I don't know, but wouldn't lung cancer be the thing to look for if one were suspecting DU as being present and affecting children's health? Lung cancer doesn't even register on the list of childhood cancers. ( http://www.cancerindex.org/ccw/guide2c.htm ) The biggest occurrence is leukemia, and that has increased maybe only 7 cases per MILLION children from 1977 to 1995: ( http://seer.cancer.gov/publications/childhood/leukemia.pdf ~ see page 24) ~~~ Now you talk about child cancer increasing along with the use of DU on firing ranges in the U.S. The first thing to do would be to determine how much DU was used, how it was used, (how much was actually aerosolized, and how much was used for weight simulation) where it was used, and then compare cancer rates for the surrounding or downwind areas. If you could come up with a statistically significant increase from a study like this, you might have something. But from what you've presented so far, one might just as well suspect carrots are responsible. ~~~ Barring such specific information relating DU dust to childhood cancer, we do have some studies that have investigated claims of increased overall cancer in areas near nuclear and uranium processing facilities. There doesn't seem to be any difference between these areas and control areas, when we actually do a proper study. Texas uranium mining: ( http://www.iop.org/EJ/abstract/0952-4746/23/3/302 ), Penn. nuclear materials processing facilities: ( http://tinyurl.com/2byhkr ) "

" Everbody wants proof as to the health dangers of vaporized DU particles. Kem is right there has been a dramatic increase of childhood cancers throughtout the US and that there is no proof to date that those increases are caused by DU. ~~~~ Independent experts who have come forward to explain how a DU particle might act in the body is based on their experience and knowledge as an expert. Rosalie BertellPHD, Dr.Helen Caldecott to name two. These experts making these claims should make one concerned about the potential health dangers to all of us.~~~~ Why not stop using this weapon until proof is obtained through testing. There is no proof it is safe! The military's own records show it is dangerous to the troops but deny it is a public health risk, especially here in Hawaii.~~~~ One in 17 births is Hawaii is a birth defect. That number is too high. Autism is at epidemic rates in Hawaii. Heart Disease and Cancer is he first and third cause of death among Hawaii residents. A lots of things could cause these problems including exposure to vaporized DU. Halt all live-fire training in Hawaii until transparent testing has been completed. Ban the use and manufacture of depleted uranium Now! "

" BTW Skep I don't recall using the word "epidemic". Cancer rates have risen daramatically in the past 15 to 20 years. "

" Once more Skeptical, Google childhood cancer and open the link provided by The National Childhood cancer Society and read the facts. """""" It has not yet been proven that DU is the cause of the dramatic increase of cancers in children or in autism. The dramatic increase in both, began after the use of DU in ammunition began to be used in great quantities in the United States on military firing ranges. When cancers develop in a child, they are not tested for DU contamination, few if any people are, therefore DU is not linked to diseases and that is one of the problems. """"" Can you prove DU is NOT the reason for the dramatic increae of cancer in children? If so, please prove it for us and also tell us that website does not say there is a dramatic increase n chldhod cancer. Any readng this who wish to also check it out is able to do so. "

" I don't want you to hate me Kem, but should I really let that possibility keep me from pointing out what I feel are errors and/or misassumptions in what you've written? I'm afraid I'm not willing to trade love for letting what is really just the mainstream scientific concensus on DU go unrepresented and/or distorted here. I'm having to ask you yet again. Please provide a link to a credible source saying that child cancer is "epidemic" in the U.S., and if that is the case, proof or even a reasonable rationale for blaming it on DU. "

" Skeptical, If you argue the points I just made___I will hate you again.____ Seriously, I don't see any argument, if there is fire,___ there is smoke. The smoke is the residue of what is being burned. Smoke goes into the air. If what is beng burned is deadly for life, it can go anywhere the wind takes it. Now who can test for DU anyplace?____ Only the military has the sophisticated instruments required to test for DU. Therefore, if the military says there is no DU contamination, that's it,___ case closed. Would the military lie? Have they lied abut using dU ammo? ___Yep. Why would they lie, cover it? They lied about Agent Orange. How could they or our powerful government not lie after what they have done? ___ Will the press ever dig up the truth and tell the public? How can they, they don't have the necesary instruments to test for DU contamination. Only the government has them and that is the key to find the truth.___ The testing is the key and that is What Linda Kroll wants to have done.____ Honestly an honest test with people like Greenpeace there to insure it is honest. ___ She and I both agree, if we had people like you, ofr yo are a fighter and we believe yo do seek the truth, and have the free press, helping to find the truth, instead of just taking the governments word for it,___ we might find the truth. I'm not sure that we want to hear it however, this may be the one truth____ that really, really hurts. "

" Skeptical, that is precicely the point, they don't talk about the danger of DU dust to any degree."""""""" Think about it, on one hand they state,__ (unless you are involved in a detontion or fire with DU, there is little danger.)""""" So, when any DU ammo is fired, it begins to burn as it travels through the air, it looks lie tracers. Look at a picture of a AC-130H gunship firing DU ammo. It is like a dragon, with a ball of fire racing from the aircraft all the way to the ground. That's not tracers, it's burning DU ammo. Then when the DU round strikes a target, almost all burns and if in a bomb it all burns.__ Okay, now when anything burns to a crisp, there is smoke, which is filled with the residue of whatever is being burned, just like burning a sheet of paper, or the smoke coming from the chimney of a coal fired plant or wood burning stove, or a cigarette.""" (One of the biggest problems they used ot have with failure of aircraft instruments, was because of tar from the smoke given off by cigarettes.)"""" There are microscopic specks of soot and ash in the smoke.____ When DU burns there is smoke.____ The smoke is full of Deadly particles of DU and it doesn't stay in the immediate vicinity of the blast or fire. Some does, just as there is ash left in a Bar-B-Q grill when the charcoal has burned up. Any wind can easily pick up the ash and blow it anyplace. """"""""" The Army says and rightfuly so, that burned DU is dangerous. """"" Well, ALL fired DU ammo has burned and the resulting smoke is wafting in the breeze___ and a single Nano-particle of inhaled DU can cause cancer. """""""" Now how about the cancer deaths from DU? Good question. No one I ever have known who contacted cancer or died of it was tested to see if DU, or any type of atomic radiation caused the cancer in the first place. So if people are dying from inhaling DU, who would ever know it? We do know for certain, that over 500,000 young people who served in the First Gulf War are permanently disabled. The military tries to hide that fact. Why? They are not all dead yet but they are suffering from many types of diseases and have the symptoms of radiation poisoning. It has only just begun and we still allow the militry to fire off DU ammo.___ Insane. >>>>>> Finally, that lik I offered abut children with cancer, ccncers in children are incresing yearly, when I was a kid, kids didn't get cancer, old people did. Autism also was rare, not anymore. DU was not heard of until the 1970s, and cancers and autism, diabetes, began to be a big problem after then____ not just in the states, world wide.>>>>>>>> I'll stop, DU smoke is filled with deadly paricles and it's in the air and do we care?>>>>> I do. "

" "The capital A doesn't work for me, but I see now what's wrong. You had it right the first time except it needs to be a small v. Thanks for the olive branch, my apologies as well, and I agree, let's try to put aside insults and accusations that aren't relevant to the subject or the credibility of various proponents. ~~~ Actually, I don't see any major discrepancy in the film with what is currently being warned about regarding DU. They warn about close contact with uranium dust/aerosols by way of a detonation or fire. This is quite a different situation than what exists for anyone else. The warnings in the film don't translate into there being a hazard blowing in the wind in Iraq or Kona, not to mention the whole world, and they didn't say that in the film and they don't today. (in Kona there's no indication that there's any breathable DU residue to begin with, only harmless chunks, and I believe I read an account that said that no DU was detected from the controlled burn at Schofield on Oahu.) ~~~ A quote from near the end of the film: "Bottom line. Unless you are involved in a detonation or fire involving depleted uranium, hazards are relatively small". ~~~ The film may have overstated somewhat the true danger potential of DU; I say that only because of the recent and comprehensive Sandia study of 2005, which I think may have caused at least some easing of concerns. ~~ http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2005/all/snl-dusand.pdf ~~ (see sections 7.3 and 7.4) "

" SKEPTICAL___ Put a capital A before the word (watch) in the website. "

" I can't make it come up either now, we'll have to wait for the nurse Linda Kroll to come back, she put it on a blog on another website and now I can't find it. You know what Skeptical, lets be more friendly, I apologize for my past rudeness to you. You angered me, because I am so certain that unless DU is stopped on Hawaii, it will kill it. I watched the film, the mlitary is lying about DU use and the dangers. "

" Now it's me that has the problem. I can't make your url work. Could you post the exact title of the youtube video, Kem? Thanks. "

" I am not always correct Skeptical, I'm always honest. Here's the link for the Army training film about DU. There is no controversary about it. They produced it to inform the troops about the hazards of DU, then tell the public there is no danger with DU. This s not a new film, the government has known the dangers of DU since 1945. "'''''' http://www.youtube.com/watch?V=U93PBZIyqBs "

" It is you who are a charlaton in reverse Skeptical.""""" You proved it well by refusing to address the issue of the film, produced by the military for the trops, concerning the hazards of DU.""""""" Even there the military either from ignorance or purposely lied, they did not inform the troops that their issued gas masks would not protect them from inhaling the poison. """""""""" Let us have a direct answer to this question from you skeptical.""""" Why did the government produce a film for our troops, that explains the deadly nature of inhaled DU? "

" Sorry, maybe its a problem with tinyurl somehow. Hate to post big long links, but here's the original: http://www.crescentandcross.com/index.php?page=articles&author=miscellaneous&subpage1=afp1 "

" So you are being selective. Thanks for being honest. I see your point, but often there is much more than meets the eye in explaining the motivations for putting out this warning or making that statement. Perhaps you'd be kind enough to link to the particular film you're referring to, so that we might get the full context. ~~~ I believe you when you say that the "Crescent and Cross" website doesn't work for you. It's just that I think it works for most everyone else, and I KNOW it works for me. Did you try the google idea? "

" The website I say does not work was given by you and I re-posted it here at 4:18pm Aug 29 """"""""" I do not BELIEVE everythng our government tells us. Since they produced a safety film about the dangers of DU FOR THE TROOPS and then deny to the public that DU is dangerous, it proves to all that they are lying about one or the other. I prefer to believe the military lied to the public.""""""""" So yes Skeptical, I am being selective and your answer to the issue is so weak it is laughable. "

" "I and four others tried the web link you gave Skeptical and the screen that did appear infomred us that site does not exist." ~~~ Hmm ..... I checked it as posted and it worked for me. I think it worked for Lindafaye, judging by her reaction. Try this -- type the words [Crescent and Cross Rokke 2006] into Google, and it should come up right at the top, at least it does for me. Otherwise, perhaps you have some kind of censorship or filter situation within your organization or service provider/network. Or, who knows. I'm not an expert on such things. "

" "The DOD have produced a film for the troops, that gives them some idea of the dangers of DU dust." ~~~ What's this? You're believing something put out by the military and the government? Kind of selective, aren't we? "

" First of all Kem, it wasn't "on another website" that I said things about Rachel Carson, it was under the other article on this same website that most people here are familiar with. Small point, but let's get small things right, might we? Getting a lot of small things wrong often leads to the confusion that results in the big picture getting distorted --- like DU supposedly being detectable in the air with a hand-held Geiger counter. ~~~ I don't want to get all sidetracked on DDT, but you did bring it up, and it actually provides some interesting and relevant parallels to the DU issue. I linked you to an article (http://tinyurl.com/36w4nk) in the NY Times by Tina Rosenberg, no right-winger for sure, which made the case that many are currently making, including dozens of leaders and doctors in African and South American nations who are losing thousands and thousands of their citizens every year to malaria and are rapidly reinstating the use of DDT. The case is this, in a nutshell: DDT is not a panacea, and as with everything, moderation is advisable. But the hysteria, which was based on ideological bias, flawed science and flawed reasoning by Rachel Carson, led to the unwarranted banning and demonization of a relatively safe substance which had been used previously to save millions of lives and enhance prosperity in many areas of the U.S. and elsewhere. That banning and demonization has since greatly contributed to the loss of millions of lives in areas still inflicted with malaria carrying mosquitos. Just like Rokke and Moret, Carson was apparently unqualified, or at least blinded by her anti-chemical agenda. Like DDT, DU is not necessarily harmless, and again moderation is always wise, but the relatively small risk it poses is greatly justified by its ability to deter aggression, and bring conflicts to an end in a short period of time when they do occur. Therefore, if DU ends up being banned at the behest of all the Rachel Carson fans out there, it can only serve to embolden potential aggressors, and insure longer campaigns and more lives lost. ~~~ Here is something you need to read thoroughly with an open mind. Don't confuse unfair and unsupportable character assassination with factually-based criticism. Everyone who disagrees with the P.C. attitude about DDT is not a "neo-con". I don't get the feeling this guy is: ~~~~ http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/articles/summ02/Carson.html ~~ Up until fairly recently, I as well would have jumped back if someone held out a vial of DDT spray in front of me. Such is the power of repeated, taken-for-granted misinformation that people are afraid, or too agenda-driven, to correct. "

" I do hope that all here understand that SKEPTICAL is a Neo-Con shill. The type of person who cares only for themselves. >>>>>>>>>> Tne DOD have produced a film for the troops, that gives them some idea of the dangers of DU dust. >>>>>>>> It warns the troops to avoid inhaling any DU and if near where DU ammo has been exploded to wear a gas mask or a least cover their faces with a paper mask or cloth. The government sponsered and produced film warns that inhaling DU can cause 'serious' internal medical problems. >>>>>>>> Now tell us, why would the DOD,___ the military, have a film like that produced, if DU was not dangerous? "

" I and four others tried the web link you gave Skeptical and the screen that did appear infomred us that site does not exist. We tried it several times on two seperate days. Any here can give a shot and see.>>>>>>>> On another website you just attacked the findings of Racheal Carson, using the same words you use to attack those who offer un-arguable evidence that burned DU nano-particles are deadly. >>>>>>>>> The neo-con business people who have controled our government for years, will stop at nothing to destroy whistle blowers who tell the truth about anything that may harm their profits.___ They dig up naive and ignorant people such as yourself SKEPICAL, to continually broadcast their sinful lies. It's all for money,___ blood money.___ For shame. "

" Once again Skeptical, you're a mystery in your own mind... Are you trying to start a new soap called the DU Family Ties involving all the misfits you can attack who aren't quite as narrow as yourself in life experience? The people you attack are out in the world making a difference while you sit on your a$$ in the office making up crap. The people you attack are in the field cleaning up the mess you support. The people you attack are monitoring what the government refuses to do in a concerned way to protect its own citizens. I bet your a christian too. Every Sunday you go to church and your sins are washed away, right? We know your type. You are very insecure about your safety and paranoid someone is going to attack your country, so no matter how much you are attacked and losing, you will always fall back on "well their going to come over and get us, and what are you going to do then, huh?" Pathetic, political beaurocrat that isn't worth the paper your worthless paycheck is printed on. I am going to give you a chance to back out of here peacefully before I go for the kill. "

" uhh.....how is the "Crescent and Cross" website "ficticious", Kem? You don't explain that, and then you continue to sport the article written by the anti-semite. ~~~ weird! ~~~ As far as I can see, it's simply an account of a conference of people who get misty for Hitler, and 9/11 kooks, which Rokke took part in. Now I'm not sayin' he's a Nazi, or that he necessarily agrees with them on everything, (although he has stated that he thinks a DU missile hit the Pentagon, like Moret) but what kind of judgement compels one to attend such an event, unless one is at least somewhat "down" with the politics of the organizers? "

" I think people in Hawaii are more concerned about all the rabbit trails causing so much damage to their land. "

" By the way, I don't think anyone in Hawaii is worried about enemy tanks rolling across the seas to the Big Islands...:) "

" You guys should stop wasting energy on skeptical. He is good for inspiring discussion, but he could also suck legitimate life out of the dialogue by distracting us with his politics. He does not get to choose the bookends for discussion, although he tries. He chooses to focus on discriminating activists that make a difference, rather than dealing with the science. A true sickly beaurocrat trying to hold on to his job.... We will choose the areas of discussion and they should not be denigrated to attacking anyone. Certainly this world is teetering on the brink as skeptical's neo-nazi management continue on with the war machine. Glad to see that everyone is thinking about the science again except for skeptical who is really reminding me of Golem in The Hobbit. "Its precious, and let me have it." "

" The website posted by SKEPTICAL that is ficticious is >>>>>>>>>>>>> http://tinyurl.com/3akfcq. His latest is viable. However the comments by Dr.Rooke are only controversial because they have been denied by individuals who are aligned with the governmmment. He was cashered out of the service because he was blowng the whistle about DU and they had to shut him up by attacking him in every way possible. Keep in mind, how the military lied to you. Dr.Rooke is only one of hundreds of doctors who state that tiny ammounts of inhaled DU is deadly. >>>>>>>>>>>>>. The government did the same thing with the Agent Orange studies and lied about using DU on your islands. "

" The website you posted is ficticious SKEPTICAL.>>>>>Like a Karl Rove, you write as if you're intelligent and knowledgable, make up a website to jusify your latest lie and hope no one checks it for validity. >>> I personally classify you SKEPTICAL, as the DARTH VADER of Hawaii.>>>>>>>>>> Here is a valid website folks, when it opens, there is another website to read about the true dangers of DU ammunition. Http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_howkilling.htm "

" So....let me get this straight. An ex-Army Major for the U.S. military, who is saluted for his loyalty, bravery, honesty and expertise is found to be hanging out at no less than a KKK meeting w/o the sheets, with folks famous for having the exact opposite of these qualities. And the reaction is that MOI should go crawl under a rock? ~~~ This logic would be hilarious if it weren't so pathetic. ~~~ No, nobody on Rokke's "team" has died of cancer, unless perhaps it was years later and unrelated. He's been called on this and he doesn't make that claim any longer. He's simply another poser like Moret, who's exaggerated and misrepresented his expertise and experience. ~~~ Quote: "We can offer some accurate information to correct the record. Rokke is a private citizen and does not represent the Department of Defense. Following the ground war, Rokke was attached for duty to assist technical experts in the recovery and decontamination of radioactive material and equipment. The team of approximately 10 people was led, not by Rokke, but by a civilian from the Army Munitions and Chemical Command (AMCCOM). Rokke's primary role was to facilitate the recovery operations by ensuring the team had the proper support. Over the past years, Doug Rokke has reported varying numbers of ill or dead members of "his team." These claims have been researched and are unsubstantiated. ~~~ In 1998, our office compiled a list of 29 names of people Rokke reported to be on "his team." Staff members were able to interview 22 of them. Approximately 15 of the 29 people Doug Rokke had identified as being on "his team" actually worked on DU-contaminated vehicles. Two of the 29 had died, however, in interviews with the others, neither of these two veterans was named as having worked with depleted uranium. While we respect Rokke's right to express his opinions, the fact that he presents himself as an expert, does not make it so. His role in the Gulf War and at the Chemical School, as well as the specifics of his educational background, do not qualify him as a depleted uranium expert. These areas fall well outside of his area of expertise and responsibility." ~~~ http://www.ntanet.net/traprock.html ~~~ So you see, it turns out that Rokke's associating with neo-nazis is indeed indicative of a tendency to reformulate reality. "

" Like a typical Neo-Con, SKEPTICAL attacks the messenger in any way possible. Anyone who doubts DR. Rokke's, experience, education and porfolio, doesn't wish to either know or hear the truth. >>>>> You are a pitiful person SKEPTICAL. I didn't write a pitiful soul, because you don't have one,____ you sold it to the money guys. >>>>>>>>> You evaded the issue as usual, you asked for proof but you really didn't want it. Go sniff some DU dust before you crawl under that rock, it won't hurt you. >>>>>>>> Can't you see the horrible crime you are committing? >>>>>>>> Never mind, you wouldn't care. "

" Look in the mirror Skeptical then crawl under the rock you came from. "

" Interesting who Dr. (in education) Doug Rokke, chooses to associate with: ~~~ http://tinyurl.com/3akfcq ~~~ I wonder if one's hanging out with serial fabricators tells us anything about their own proclivities? ~~~ Naaa, that's silly. "

" Hi PaulMagillSmith thank-you and thank-you Kem. Great advice. I accept Skeptical for what he is. Nobody important. We have soooo many other people to reach and educate.~~~~ Doug Rokke is one of the first people I believed about the DU plague on our planet. First saw him on DVD "Beyond Treason". He wrote a wonderful letter to Hawaii Gov. Lingle to show how the Army is breaking its own regulations when it comes to DU (Most which he wrote himself) Lingle is a Bush-ite. I don't think she'll listen to him which makes our job harder. The only thing that is more powerful than this nuclear DU plague madness facing our planet is... an educated public that are real mad and put into action. We'll keep working. Thanks again. Lindafaye www.protecthawaii.ws "

" Skeptical, I don't prove anything.>>>> Facts do and all I do here is repeat facts and offer what experts have reported on the issue of the dangers of DU that has burned. >>>>>>>>. You want proof Skeptical, then ask Dr. Rourke. He was ordered to take a large team of men to Iraq and clean up the DU from vehicles that were damaged. He is about the only man of the entire team still alive. They all died from various cancers.__ Young men!__ Rourke is dying from cancer. He also reported that except for chunks of unbruned DU, cleaning up hte mess was impossible. >>>>>>>>> If DU is not dangerous, why did the military keep denying it was used at the ranges in Hawaii?>>>>> You are a charlaton Skeptical, the writings you post are lies and you know they are lies. "

" Linda K., Kem sent me over to this site to give you some assistance with Skeptical. After reading your comments, some from others, and Skeptical's I think you are handling things well, but I can only add a little advice if I may. DON'T WASTE YOUR VALUABLE TIME ARGUING WITH OR TRYING TO CONVINCE FOOLISH PEOPLE!!! In one of his posts where he challenges us to show where one sole person has died from the effects of DU he shows his ignorance, or that he has been bought off by someone to create doubt. He's another Billy_y4, but worse. Here's a question I bet he can't answer..."If DU is so safe, yet such a superior weapon, then why did the US Navy say they would stop carrying it and using it on their ships?" "

" PROVE your "truth", Kem. That's what is at issue here. I've yet to get from you, or anyone, any credible proof that DU has harmed or killed anyone, other than those that it has directly hit. Agenda-tainted wishful speculation could be employed to denigrate literally any person, group, country or substance on the planet. Fortunately, the law, common sense and if nothing else the "golden rule" demand much more than that. "

" How is the truth paranoia SKEPTICAL? The two elements are diametrically opposed. "

" Paranoid much, Kem? ~~~ Well Lindafaye, if you're discounting the Royal Society, then I'm afraid you're also obligated to discount your own post about the slide show, which sources the Royal Society heavily. ~~~ Just sayin'. ~~~ ;-) "

" The owners of uranium mines love the fact that DU is being used for weapons. They also love nuclear power, the price of uranium has risen over 500% in the past two years. The owners also have control of much of the worlds press and media sources. Who owns most of the uranium mines and earns billions of dollars every year from them? >>>> The royal family of England. >>>> Check it out. "

" There are over a million papers available on the internet written about DU, some are sponsered by the government or their hired guns who are under political pressure.>>>>>DU use in weapons is the worst crime against humanity and the planet that has ever been committed by any government, they cannot now possibly admit it was a horrible mistake.>>>>> None of our government officials and those in medical fields who have lied about the dangers of DU wishes to face a public hearing. You have already seen how the military has lied about the use of DU on your beautiful islands.>>>>>If you have loved ones, listen to Linda Kroll and visit her websites and check out others and reason with the statistics. The clues of what DU is doing to the planet and our children are clearly obvious. "

" If any wish to believe anythng SKEPTICAL writes about DU, then they would believe anythng the government and military tells us abour DU.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skeptical is actng as their spokesperson and uses the lie theory. That is:>>> If you tell a lie often enough, people may begin to believe you. I trust Linda Kroll's websites. "

" Hi Skeptical I only had time to check the first link will, check the other one later. At first, I was very interested in reading what the report had to say. Then I checked the "about us" and found this quote About the Royal Society “This new professional approach meant that the Society was no longer just a learned society but also de facto an academy of scientists. The Government recognized this in 1850 by giving a grant to the Society of £1,000 to assist scientists in their research and to buy equipment. Therefore a Government Grant system was established and a close relationship began...” England is as guilty as the US on bringing this DU plague upon us! As always follow the money...and NEVER BITE the HAND that feeds you. Sounds like extreme damage control to me. "

" Lindafaye, That slideshow comes across as being a little scary, however I would submit that the creator may be taking an overly cautious tone, for "just in case" and "P.C." reasons. Kind of like those warnings on your BBQ -- "caution, surface may get hot when in use". ~~~ In the slideshow, they reference quite heavily the Royal Society reports of 2001 and 2002, (Note the same opening picture in both documents) and also anticipate the completion of the "Capstone studies". A far more accurate and realistic picture of DU's true threat (or actually lack thereof) to human health can be had by reading those reports DIRECTLY, and bypassing whatever butt-covering may have gone on in the preparation of the slide show. ~~~ But even the slide show itself illustrates how the added risk of lung cancer from DU is barely distinguishable from normal background risk. Summary of the Royal Society reports: ~~~ http://www.royalsociety.org/displaypagedoc.asp?id=6166 ~~~ Capstone summary: ~~~ http://www.pdhealth.mil/downloads/Final_Capstone_FS_03_10_05%5B2%5D.pdf ~~~ In short, DU is characterized in both reports as being possibly slightly dangerous to the small number of individuals directly exposed, but pretty much not a concern otherwise. Hardy supportive of the apocalyptic proclamations and birth defect horrors that are put forth on websites such as your own. "

" I wish to show readers of this message board several quotes from a paper by Dr. Stanley Prusiner (the father of the so-called "infectious prion hypothesis") and Dr. Holger Wille (Univ. of California) 1999 entitled, "Ultrastructural Studies on Scrapie Prion Crystals Obtained from Reverse Micellar Solutions" Biophysical Journal Vol. 76 Feb. 1999 This paper is free on-line at: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/picrender.fcgi?artid=1300055&blobtype=pdf>>>>>>>The point of these quotes is to high-light the connection between the formation of prion crystals (associated with disease diagnosis0 and usage of uranyl based stains (laboratory stains manufactured using depleted uranium). The uranium within these stains acts as a “proteon nucleating center” (PNC) which is described by Dr. Vitaly Vodyanoy of Auburn University, Alabama in his USA patent application 20070122799 and USA patent 7138255.>>>>>>>>[quotes]: "Small two and three-dimensional crystals were formed upon exposure of soluble PrP27-30 to uranyl salts directly from the reverse micellar solutions.">>>>>>"Crystallization of PrP27-30 was first observed after negative staining with 2% uranyl acetate solution (pH ~3.8) while buffered 2% ammonium molybdate, 50mM sodium acetate pH 4.0 did not induce PrP27-30 to crystallize, while the use of buffered uranyl acetate (2% uranyl acetate, 50mM sodium acetate pH 4.0) improved the quality of the crystals. Unbuffered saturated uranyl fomate (>>>>> "Formation of these crystals was found to require uranyl salts containing acetate, formate or nitrate. Other metal salts used for negative staining such as ammonium molybdate, sodium phosphotungstate, copper sulfate, zinc sulfate, bismuth oxynitrate, bismuth nitrate, thallium acetate, lead acetate, cadmium iodide, lanthanum nitrate, vanadylsulfate and aurothiglocuse did not promote the formation of PrP crystals.">>>>>>> "More recently, use of ~0.2% SDS and sonication led to diaggregation of PrP27-30 into small spherical particles with a relatively homogenous size distribution of ~10 nm and ... , but this procedure failed to produce monomers or dimers of PrP27-30.">>>>>>> "The crystallization of solubilized PrP27-30 depended on the use of uranyl salts as a crystallization agent.">>>>>>> "Uranyl ions bind more tightly to SDS micelles than other divalent cations (Reiller et al., 1994); a similar behavior could be expected for AOT reverse micelles and might explain why only the uranyl ion allowed crystal growth." >>>>>>> [kathy] the transmissible agent has been identified by scientists who "ashed" the so-called infectious protein [ie burned samples of homogenated [liquified] brain material] at temperatures over 660 degrees celcius, at this temperature absolutely NO proteins could survive. Still the metals in the ash transmitted disease to special genetically modified lab mice, note: when injected directly into the brain. It is apparent from Dr. Prusiner's paper above, and others he has performed of a similar nature, that one of the agents capable of causing BSE/CWD/vCJD et al. is depleted uranium nanoparticles. I strongly suspect that other nanoparticles of radionuclides such as cesium 134/137 or strontium 90 (present in Chernobyl fallout) are also capable of causing these TSEs. You can read this paper on line if you wish at the link above. As KP states, the location where the radioactive particles lodge will directly effect the disease which develops later on. Level of exposure, timing of exposure and nutritional status of those contaminated directly influence the whole process. Prusiner's paper notes that none of the other metal stains induced formation of prion crystals (associated with reverse micelles). Inhalation via the olfactory system will directly affect the brain, as will absorption via the optical nerve. Inhalation and absorption to the lungs can go the the brain and everywhere else. Damage to the bone marrow and blood results in leukemia. "

" Skeptical Maybe you'd believe the Military's own admission about the health effects by COL J. Edgar Wakayama OSD/DOT&E/CS August, 2002~~~~~ Read this report for the military's own view on risks to health and the environment~~ Download PDF version of PowerPoint Presentation Traprock site ( 2.6 mg) - http://www.traprockpeace.org/wakayama2.pdf~~ Traprock has a copy on its site in the event that it 'disappears' from DTIC site. Remember the Futures Market program that DOD pulled from its site? ~~People with low bandwidth may prefer the RTF file (easy down load - test only) http://www.traprockpeace.org/wakayama2.rtf~~~ Official download - Defense Technical Information Center - http://www.dtic.mil/ndia/2002training/wakayama2.pdf Keep studying Skeptical. If you are not a DoD spin doctor and read the info with a open mind you might learn something. Hey Kem Patrick I agree with you. You've done your homework. I think skeptical is a lost cause. Thanks for trying to set him straight.Lindafaye www.protecthawaii.ws "

" SKEPTICAL, Your arguments do not address the dangers of the type of DU used for weapons. An Abram's tank shell contains ten pounds of solid DU, or about three cups of radio-active smoke and wind blown nano-particles of dust, when it hits a target.>>>>There are FIVE BILLION specks of deadly microscopoc dust in a sngle cupfull of DU.>>>>>Nano-particles of burned DU are one millionth of a meter in diameter. If one speck of DU is inhaled it will enter the lung or cross the olfactory bulb and go directly to the brain. There in the brain, the particle will emit ten thousand times the radiation acceptable for a chest x-ray. Unlike an x-ray, DU will continue to emit radiation on cells forever, causing cancer. In addition, metastasis will occur and cancerous cells will break off and migrate throughout the body causing other cancers to breed in internal body organs.>>>> Over time, three to five years or more, the body will die from cancer. DU will not be suspect, the person just died from cancer.>>>>>> A single DU particle in the brain will also damage the mitochondria, which provides all energy to body cells and nerves, this damage can result in numerous diseases, Parkinsons, Lou Gherigs, autism, diabetes, etc.>>>>>>>> This is especially true for children, where cells are being manufactured at a rapid rate and their immune systems are not fully developed. In the blood and bone marrow, DU will alter DNA, again children are more prone to have damage.>>>>>>>>Only one speck of inhaled DU can create havoc in the body, the odds of only inhaling one of the now trillions of specks of DU in the air, would be equivelant to winning the lotto. If one inhales one speck, the odds are, they will inhale many of the deadly specks. Read this website for further, very good information about the dangers of DU Skeptical.>>>>>>>>If you are wrong, and the facts of so many of the steadily increasing cases of cancer and autism prove you are, your continual denying could cause great harm to the people of your state, especially the innocent children. >>>>>>>> http://www.gulfwarvets.com/du_howkilling.htm "

" Not to mention contributing to the pile of unjustified and unsupportable fear and hate engendering material that swamps the computer search results for the entire world. Is this really a noble course of action? "

" Lindafaye, those old chunks of DU tail-fin are no more a threat to your health than is a sunny day at the beach. ~~~ http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/dutoxic010112_1_n.shtml ~~~ Let's keep some perspective -- The U.S. military HAS already prevented Hawaii from falling into the hands of either Imperial Japan, Nazi Germany or Communist Russia, and MIGHT JUST be needed again some day for a similar calling. Are you sure it's wise, and in yours and your children's/grandchildren's best long-term interests to denigrate one of its most effective tank-killing weapons, when the bulk of world science/health organizations maintain that the risk posed to human health by DU is slim to none? "

" Of course the point was not that there wasn't/aren't disastrous aspects to Chernobyl, due to areas receiving high levels of radiation and/or fallout, but that surrounding areas receiving moderate and lower doses were victimized not so much by the disaster, but by the hysteria and misinformation spread by those suffering from nuke-phobia. ~~~ http://tinyurl.com/32snw2 "

" It's confirmed. Depleted uranium found at Pohakuloa on Big Island. http://www.hawaiitribune-herald.com/articles/2007/08/21/local_news/local01.txt#blogcomments~~STOP ALL LIVE-FIRE TRAINING IMMEDIATELY! DECOMISSION PTA NOW! Begin remediation of our land and provide health screening to all people who want it. Lindafaye www.protecthawaii.ws "

" Chernobyl is so safe, they have to build a new sarcophacus over it! French Firm Wins Tender To Build Chernobyl Shelter KIEV - French-led consortium Novarka has won a tender to build a new shelter to encase the shattered fourth reactor at Ukraine's Chernobyl power station, site of the world's worst nuclear accident, the EBRD said on Tuesday. The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development has coordinated efforts to construct a "sarcophagus" to replace the leaking structure hurriedly erected by workers and troops in the months following the April 1986 explosion and fire at the site. It has been seeking a contractor since 2004. "The tender has been completed and Novarka has been declared the winner," a bank spokesman said by telephone. "But no final contract has been signed for now." A bank statement said the agreement would provide for further funding of more than 364 million euros (US$498 million). The entire project, including construction of the confinement vessel, is expected to cost about $1 BILLION and funds totalling that have been raised since the 1990s. Novarka is headed by French firms Bouygues and Vinci. The consortium also includes Germany's Hochtief and RWE, grouping four of Europe's biggest construction firms as well as local Ukrainian companies. Ukraine, which has long lobbied for international help in building the structure, estimates it will take three years to complete the project. President Viktor Yushchenko, marking the 20th anniversary of the disaster last year, said it was vital to come up with funding to tackle problems with serious, long-term consequences for the entire European continent. Large amounts of nuclear fuel remain inside the structure. Estimates of the number of deaths linked to the Chernobyl accident vary widely. The World Health Organisation puts the number at 9,000, while the environmental group Greenpeace predicts an eventual death toll of 93,000. Some 200,000 residents were evacuated from Ukraine alone, though the accident hit neighbouring Belarus particularly hard. Experts are still studying the long-term effects on health, particularly the incidence of thyroid cancer. Story Date: 8/8/2007 Always concentrating on thyroid cancer, when there are dozens of diseases resulting from this exposure. At one 2001 meeting groups representing radiation experts (independent scientists) stated the number of those "affected" by Chernobyl is more like 9 million people. To this day, 180,000 sheep in the UK are still under restricted movement because of high levels of cesium 134/137 in their meat. Grazing on uncontaminated pastures for a long enough time, this level can eventually drop to "allowable levels". Meat has one of the highest allowable levels, because when these radionuclides bind with proteins they are encased, and less bioavailable. How much money would you accept as a wage to work on this sarcophacus, skeptical? "

" Anyone doubting the harm from Chernobyl should check out the film "Chernobyl Heart" and its images of geiger counters registering over 13,000 CPM in the vicinity of the burned reactor and children's hospital wards in Belarus, downwind of the fire. Wake up. There are government and industy misinformation programs and then there are the facts and the pain of the people affected most. To think that DU is not in a wide, wide range of weapons now is naive. Nowadays much of "kinetic" weaponry contains radioactive DU, because it is cheaper than tungsten to obtain for the manufacturers. Some of them classify the materials, but the explosive profile and the radiation being observed and the decontamination work around heavily bombed sites gives it away. To see that anyone would be in denial as to how much DU is in the arsenal now is pathetic. Check out the film "Blowin in the Wind". It explains the explosives signatures seen since Gulf War I. The A10 Warthog shells have contaminated huge areas for example the Highway of Death, still hot today. Any nation bringing these weapons to our moku in secret has betrayed our trust. It's time to close the ranges down in Hawaii and to preserve the aina in righteousness, malama pono. "

" At the 20 anniversary of the Chernobyl disaster, the media commemorated the event with many stories designed to draw attention to its causes and consequences. The most important element was our fear of radiation. Did the media expose the fraud of the linear-no-threshold (LNT) hypothesis of radiation carcinogenesis (and congenital malformations)—the principal cause of this fear? ~~~ http://www.atomicinsights.com/Guests/AGC_06-11-06.pdf "

" Everyone needs to watch this power-point presentation on the dangers of nuclear bombs/reactors (special emphasis on CANDU reactors) and their waste. It can be found at the under many headings at the Canadian Coalition for Nuclear Responsibility webpage: http://www.ccnr.org/stockholm-2007/ look for "The Radioactive Legacy of the Nuclear Age [slide show (1 hr) 2007]". This presentation was given by Dr. Gordon Edwards and Robert Del Tredici in Stockholm, Sweden in April 2007. A pictures speaks a thousand words, and there are many excellent photos in the powerpoint as well as on the ccnr.org site. Check out page 38 of 77 as it shows "suited-up" workers on a US military tank somewhere in the USA desert. Is this Utah? Pinon Canyon, Co? Hmm... Please spread this link to one and all. "

" Here's where the confusion lies. The military has used DU in cruise missiles, but only for testing/simulation purposes. Similarly, some DU was used on Oahu and perhaps elsewhere during the 60's for purposes of testing the Davy Crockett system. ~~~ But no DU has been used in missiles and bombs on the actual battlefield. Smaller caliber DU bullets were considered and used in a limited way during practice, but again, not during actual combat. ~~~ The pieces found in Utah, like the ones on Oahu, are of little to no concern to the environment or people. How boring is that? ~~~ quote: "In addition, the Army has tested limited quantities of small caliber DU ammunition (5.56mm, 7.62mm and 50 caliber). However, the Army produced these rounds in limited quantities for developmental testing only and evaluation and NEVER TYPE-CLASSIFIED THEM FOR STANDARD USE. Some veterans claim to have fired 50-caliber DU sniper rounds during the Gulf War, but this claim could not be supported after numerous interviews with the manufacturer of the 50 caliber sniper rifle, with ammunition suppliers, and with the DoD logisticians responsible for small caliber ammunition. The 50-caliber sniper rifle did fire an API (armor piercing incendiary) round, but the round did not contain DU. There have been similar claims that cruise missiles fired during the Gulf War contained DU. DU is used to SIMULATE THE WEIGHT OF A NUCLEAR WARHEAD in the developmental testing and evaluation of the nuclear version of certain cruise missiles, but NO CRUISE MISSILES FIRED DURING THE GULF WAR CONTAINED DU." ~~~ http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/du_ii/du_ii_tabe.htm "

" Please google the truly amazing video Zietgeist or go to http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331&q=genre% 3Adocumentary&total=261144&start=0&num= 10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 "

" Environment: Old uranium litters test, training range By Robert Gehrke The Salt Lake Tribune Article Last Updated: 07/31/2007 12:16:12 AM MDT More than 400 pounds of depleted uranium, used as ballast in cruise missiles, litters the Utah Test and Training Range, according to Air Force records. The material is radioactive, but given the relatively small amount and its distance from inhabited areas it likely poses little risk. "It is probably not something for the public to worry about," said Steve Erickson, of the Citizen Education Project, who obtained the depleted uranium records from the Air Force under the Freedom of Information Act. "It is something of a regulatory puzzle, however. You're not supposed to leave it there. It should be disposed of properly." Depleted uranium has given up some of its radioactive properties to enrich other uranium, making it "hotter" and usable in reactors. Depleted uranium is about 40 percent less radioactive than regular uranium. The Defense Department has used depleted uranium in armor-piercing weapons and armor, and as ballast for things like cruise missiles. It's those cruise missiles, tested at the Utah Test and Training Range, that have left bits of depleted uranium scattered around the vast bombing range, records show. Normally, the Air Force tries to recover all of the depleted uranium. But between 1995 and 2005, there have been eight instances where amounts totaling about 430 pounds of depleted uranium couldn't be recovered. --------------------------------------------- Advertisement --------------------------------------------- For example, in one test in July 2004, a depleted uranium ballast separated from its cruise missile on impact and burrowed deep into a muddy bog. Crews dug 5 feet into the mud with a backhoe but could not locate the 90 pounds of depleted uranium. Going back to 1985, some 1,170 pounds have been scattered by weapons tests at the range. The Air Force considers the depleted uranium to be in "permanent storage," since it cannot be recovered. It would not be dangerous unless it gets into a person's body, most likely through inhalation if the depleted uranium were to burn, said Arjun Makhijani, president of the Institute for Energy and Environmental Research. "It's not zero risk. All of this radioactivity causes some risk," said Makhijani. "But 400 pounds dispersed over a large area would not be considered a large amount." "

" Eventually all of skepticals "theology" will be debunked, as he lays weak arguement after arguement on the altar of truth. For example, DU is used as ballast in cruise missiles, bunker busters, etc as well as on the tips of small ammunitions. Skeptical, you have argued that DU is only used on smaller ammunition. Are you trying to mislead or do your really believe what you are saying? If you do believe yourself, well your research ability is crap. You are wasting everyone's tiime webbing together all your rabbit trails to nowhere. At least, you have created some criminal employment for yourself. Those of us who know don't need your research help. Nor are we drinking the kool-aid. "

" It's becoming clear to me that Busby is the Steven Jones of the DU world. He has apparently been unable to get his work published in the appropriate professional journals, and so he created one himself, and simply invites any and all people to provide "peer review", with little regard for their relevant expertise. He appears to be somewhat of a joke to legitimate scientists in the field. ~~~ Linked below is a "peer review" of his report on supposedly finding uranium in filters in the U.K., and blaming it on uranium weapons used in Iraq during the initial invasion. The reviewer is aware of the unethical situation pertaining to peer review, and so pokes fun by calling himself a "peer reviewer", even though he's not a radiation expert. In the case of Busby AND Jones, one doesn't really even need to be an expert to find the flaws in their methodology and reasoning. ~~ http://tinyurl.com/254hdd ~~ Note that Busby apparently DIDN'T find DU in his filters, but natural uranium. Bizarre. "

" Kathy, Read the analysis of the Gamma Scout by Blaine Howard, or if you have, read it again. "

" Skeptical "By the Gamma Scout's own specifications, it is not capable of detecting DU "nano-particles"" WRONG. DU has an energy during transformation of 4.1-4.2 MeV. Gamma Scout can measure 4.0 MeV (alpha) and up. skeptical "there is no evidence, nor does it make any sense that DU was used during the "shock and awe", nor during the Tora Bora bombing. DU is NOT contained in missiles and bombs -- it is exclusively used to penetrate tanks or other armored vehicles," AGAIN WRONG! DU is used in bunker busters, allowing deeper penetration of the bomb before it explodes. DU is also used in small caliber bullets. Any way the Atomic Energy Associations and DOD can possibly get rid of the nuclear waste, goes. Not the same sceptic at the UK site, hmm, just another person with blinders on. "

" The only pattern I seek to follow is the one suggested by legitimate science, investigation and proof. There's no proof whatsoever that radical Islamists AREN'T solely responsible for 9/11, and there's no proof that anyone's ever been harmed or killed by depleted uranium. ~~~ The hole in the Pentagon was EXACTLY what might be expected upon entry of a fragile aluminum tube containing tons of liquid into a reinforced concrete wall. The wings essentially folded back and entered along with the fuselage. Dozens of people are on the record witnessing an airliner hitting the Pentagon, in reality there are likely dozens and dozens more, as a line of slow moving traffic had a view of it. There are ZERO reports of a missile. All but one or two or maybe it was all of the remains of the passengers were identified. ~~~ You can try to pigeonhole your "opponents" on this by describing it as the "government explanation", but you'd be leaving out dozens of private engineering companies, universities and even insurance companies who have done separate analyses, none of whom have found significant disagreement with the "official explanation". You'd be leaving out every legitimate journalist in the world, most of whom would give their left arm for such a story, if only it were true. ~~~~ By the Gamma Scout's own specifications, it is not capable of detecting DU "nano-particles", even if they actually existed in the Hawaiian breeze. Sophisticated air-filtering/sampling and laboratory analysis would be necessary. We've had a qualified former CHP explain this for us, and we've not had even an attempt at a rebuttal from our "international expert on DU", much less verifiable proof that she deserves such a characterization. And there's far more than just militaries maintaining that DU is not a significant health hazard. ~~~ No, the significant pattern here is that virtually every 9/11 zombie, and every anti-DUist is vehemently against the U.S., Britain, Australia or Israel having strong militaries. One doesn't have to be a structural engineer or a nuclear physicist to recoginze the significance of that, and what it portends about the quality and objectiveness of their POV. "

" Umm, I am noticing a pattern here from skeptical. The 9/11 truth movement is baseless because it doesn't fit with the government explanation. The DU movement is baseless because it does not fit with the militaries' position. Who did you say you prostitute for, skeptical? I guess skeptical doesn't know how to think for himself because the government does such a good job thinking for him. I still need you to help me with the configuration of the hole in the pentagon and how a jet could have fit. All I get is dead silence from your lack of ability to come up with an answer to the answerless. Everything you have said has been a rabbit trail, especially all your attempts to attack the gamma scout. The comments on this blog have already debased your attempt to negate the ability of the gamma scout to pick up radoactive aerosol particles in the air. Eventually all your comments will be debunked, but you already know that. Your purpose is to create enough doubt to keep the war machine chugging along with DU ammunitions for as long as possible. Just remember, no one fools the eternal force of karma that you will live after your death. "

" Umm....no....that's not me, that's a British skeptic, apparently. But anyway, Busby's credibility is questionable, both by his methods and his assumptions. There is no evidence, nor does it make any sense that DU was used during the "shock and awe", nor during the Tora Bora bombing. DU is NOT contained in missiles and bombs -- it is exclusively used to penetrate tanks or other armored vehicles, and by this definition it has left relatively miniscule amounts of residue behind. Only 10% hits the target, and maybe 30% of THAT gets aerosolized. I'm really not clear on whether the tonnage figures used are referring to the entire munition, or just the actual DU tip component, which is really all that's relevant, obviously. "

" "The minority statement is presented in a spirit of openness and fairness. The other members of the Board acknowledge that it advances considered opinions which are genuinely held. However, they take no responsibility for the accuracy of its content, and dissociate themselves from its reasoning and conclusions, which they believe to be SERIOUSLY FLAWED SCIENTIFICALLY." ~~~ Busby is the minority they're talking about. ~~~ http://www.duob.org.uk/final_report_feb2007.pdf "

" Skeptical/sceptic, I see you are arguing on behalf of IAEA at another site. http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2006/02/334667.html?c=on Here is the link to Dr. Chris Busby's paper on the transportation in the atmosphere of depleted uranium particles from Iraq and Afganastan to England where it was measured in the Aldermaston nuclear facilities monitoring units. Read the full story: http://www.llrc.org/aldermastrept.pdf quote: "On the basis of the mean increase in uranium in air of about 500nBq/m3 we use respiration data on standard man to calculate that each person in the area inhaled some 23 million uranium particles of diameter 0.25 microns." "Using inhalation volumes from ICRP standard man (23 m3 per day; ICRP 1974) and assuming a 50% outdoor inhalation 16 of the uranium per day, in the six weeks of elevated uranium each person would have inhaled about 23 million particles. These particles would have rapidly transferred through the lungs and into the lymphatic system where they would have access to all tissues." These nanoparticles of Uranium are appropriately sized to nucleat proteins in the body and cause major health problems. One of these health problems is vCJD. A disease which results from exposure to DU and other radionuclides, not from a so-called "infectious protein". The agent of these TSE diseases is still capable of causing disease even after burning at temperatures over 660 degrees celcius and NO PROTEIN can survive that. Measuring the radiation which is floating in the air is significant, because upon precipitation that radiation will be deposited in the soil. Clay/heavy soils will adsorb the radioactive particles, while sandy soils tend not to. Thus in the sands of the desert, the particles can be readily resuspended into the air. DU weapons maneuver ranges in sandy locations will allow more down-wind drift. In the heavy soiled areas, the drift will come with the water and run-off where it will accumulate in calm waters/lake and stream beds (perhaps like Lake Defeinbaker in Saskatchewan - downstream of CFB Suffield). Work by the Low Level Radiation Campaign has shown this to be the case in the UK where Sellafield's reactors and reprocessing facility have contaminated the coast and river beds. It is imperative that "even if people are not sure" caution should be their guide. The radiation measured at Aldermaston is measurements of radiation in the atmosphere (not ground sources). Clearly, in Busby's paper, it shows huge peaks in radiation levels during the Tora Bora bombings and the 2nd invasion of Iraq in 2003. Fig. 3 page 7/18. Halliburton hid it then, now its Lockheed Martin's turn, according to the other site you frequent. "

" You mean scientific like thinking a DU tipped Tomahawk missile hit the Pentagon? ~~~ Ah yes, the Leuren Moret/Dragonslayer kind of scientist. "

" Skeptical, when DU ordinance is exploded by the pound or ton in a battlefield, your opinions about transport and amounts detected are meaningless. Try to be a little more scientific as a good christian soldier that you are. "

" Kathy, It may be that either your submission was not written clearly enough, (that's a requirement, they say, and IMHO it does need some work in this regard) or they just haven't gotten to it yet. Have they responded at all? ~~~ I'm far from the best qualified to critique your editorial, but your definition of B/G radiation seems erroneous to me. The common definition of background radiation is: "The natural radioactivity in the environment. Natural radiation consists of cosmic rays, filtered through the atmosphere from outer space, and radiation from the naturally radioactive elements in the earth (primarily uranium, thorium, radium and potassium)" ~~~ And not simply "the measurement of radiation in the air", although airborne radiation sources such as radon gas may account for a tiny percentage of overall background exposure. ~~~ I don't think that the kind of "nano-particles" you're talking about are distinctly measurable, (other than perhaps right at the moment and very near the location of their production) any more than would be your neighbor's cigarette smoke four blocks away. ~~~ This I see to be at the root of yours and others misconceptions. The source quantity of any DU "nano-particles" is so comparably minute, and the dispersal of such particles (when it might happen) is so wide, that the probability of anyone encountering ONE of them, much less enough to be a significant radiation or chemical health threat, is right next to zero. Most studies conclude a person would literally choke before they could inhale enough DU "dust" to be a significant health threat. ~~~ As for my reference to your reference to evolution, I was only pointing out the inconsistency of your accepting mainstream scientific thinking on that, but for some reason rejecting it when it comes to 9/11 and depleted uranium. "

" An editorial by Andrew Walden in his paper required a response. Although he says he will print all LTE, he has not yet published my response. So here it is. "Dear Hawaii Reporter, Editor; The article by Andrew Walden, "Depleted Uranium Radioactive Propaganda" contains information misleading to the public. Background radiation is the measurement of radiation in the air, not radiation in the soil or rocks. The ability of radiation to be measured in the air requires that the radioactive particles be ultrafine and floating in the atmosphere. A solid hunk of DU manufactured for counter-weights in a plane will not give off massive doses of radiation because the solid material of its mass prevents uranium particles from freely moving into the air where their radiation could be registered. That is, until that airplane crashes and burns; then the radiation will be released into the air. Uranium 238 emits 4.1-4.2 million electron volts (MeV) with each alpha particle transformation. The decay products of U238 emit both alpha and beta radiation. The Gamma Scout detector can measure Alpha radiation from 4.0 MeV, Beta from 0.2 MeV, and Gamma from 0.02 MeV. There is one product of the U238 decay series which the Gamma Scout cannot measure, Lead 210 with a Beta emission of 0.1MeV, (see link: http://www.gammascout.com/geiger-counter.html). Holding the geiger counter very close to solid chunks of radio-active material will increase the measurements, video example with uranium - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DEySq-Q06-U&mode=related&search Only the outside particles are free to move through the air. DU is pyrophoric, meaning it readily oxidizes and when it travels at high speed (as a projectile) it burns at temperatures which reach thousands of degrees. All this time, the projectile is scattering DU nanoparticles into the air. These particles only settle on the ground with precipitation, which nucleates around fine particles. When the DU penetrator hits its target, the DU is fragmented and it burns faster/hotter and it ignites other munitions in the vicinity. These fires create gasified metals, which recondense into metal nanospheres, often as alloys. The increased levels of background radiation measured in the air around the Hawaii military base demonstrate a drastic change in the number of radio-active particles floating in the atmosphere. This is not something that suddenly happens because of cosmic rays from the sun. It was not from suspended chicken manure in the garden; so the question remains what caused this disturbing increase? To deny that DU particles were a potential cause is misleading. It is very possible that DU was being used on a military base, the tanks are DU armour-plated, and even manuevers without active DU weapons use could resuspend the DU particles into the air. The statement made by Marti Townsend is CORRECT, not wrong as you interpret. Insoluble nanoparticles of DU behave very differently from solid shrapnel. Biologically, DU nanoparticles are at best similar to lead or tungsten nanoparticles. In reality though, the act of decay of radiological isotopes worsens the heavy metal effect. Radiation from DU is detectable. The 4.1 to 4.2 MeV of energy released by the alpha particle internally is destroying or maiming cells and DNA in the region it is lodged. Our bodies ability to coupe with this insult is effected by many factors including dosage of exposure, and method of exposure, ie: inhalation vs. ingestion, vs. absorption. A good diet provides the body's immune systems and de-toxification mechanisms with the appropriate minerals to off-set the absorption of some toxic substances. Also, a healthy diet provides necessary minerals which act as anti-oxidants countering the oxidative effects of DU. If we allow the military or mining operations to contaminate the environment that we grow our food, or live in, then we will soon loose the ability to fight off disease. This is the scenario in the more heavily contaminated war zones, and in fallout zones from atmospheric testing and nuclear melt-downs like Chernobyl. The birth defects and increased cancers are mirror images between Du in Iraq and Chernobyl fallout, except that the people in Belarus and Ukraine have better nutrition and medical care. Mr. Walden can twist the facts all he wants, but that does not change the truth." "

" Not to mention the DU contamination in Iraq... It is about truth and justice... How can we be so rapped up in our local exposure and not raise the issue of the WMD's the U.S. has produced, manufactured and used in the illegal and immoral invasion of Iraq. "

" Skeptical says but, "it's no real surprise, because you ALSO portray the health threat posed by DU and the events of 9/11 in a completely erroneous fashion. " Guess what its not what the government is saying, is it?, genius... " "

" Skeptical, is it your job to twist words? You state: "Now what in the world would cause Kathy to buy into a nutty, far-fetched theory like evolution?" to evolve does not have to mean "the big bang theory"...The immune system has evolved from what it was thousands of years ago. It has adapted to natural levels of background radiation, and those forms it came in (in the past). The mechanisms of protection have been fine tuned to repair, where possible, the ionizing radiation damage. The ability of our bodies to combat the new ionizing radiation exposure levels (ie: the last 60 some years of mans' misguided experiments with nuclear bombs/ energy/DU weapons), is very limited by the massive levels of exposure and the new products of fission (radionuclides that never existed before). This issue is extremely important, as the Atomic Energy Agencies across the world push, and push hard, for new nuclear reactors. They want to build more in New Brunswick and 2 (the first) in Alberta - to sell the power to you Americans (for the most part). Frankly, if you folks in the USA want more electricity - you can build your own problems (reactors, whatever)...I would love to see a ban on mining uranium in Canada, and proper and significantly more controlled development of other resources. Renewable energy suffers at the hand of those with no faith. Those in favor of nuclear power/weapons are "here for a good time - not a long time". Those in favor of DU need to have a registry so they can sign up for (voluntary) experimental testing; instead of using the general public as guinea pigs. "

" D. Slayer said: "By the way, skeptical doesn't believe in evolution. Isn't it obvious that he is a blind faith patriotic bible thumping Jesus freak that believes the earth is 6000 years old. He is skeptical about science, now I know you are a government military goon that holds the government line at all costs." ~~~ Of course, if you had even the slightest ability to properly interpret things, you'd know that my attitude regarding evolution is precisely the opposite of what you portray it to be. ~~~ But, it's no real surprise, because you ALSO portray the health threat posed by DU and the events of 9/11 in a completely erroneous fashion as well. "

" I would like to dedicate the ZIETGEIST video to Skeptical who represents a brainwashed government talking head who believes in the New World Order at any costs with his proposed continued use of spent nuclear materials in weapons. See how someone like Skeptical has been so misled by our government and god by watching the video in my previous comment. "

" If you really want to know what the US government is planning for your future please see the new 2 hour documentary on Google Video. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331&q=genre% 3Adocumentary&total=261144&start=0&num= 10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0 "

" If the Bush family and their coterie of handlers were looking for a long lasting legacy they most surely have found the longest lasting one possible by their sanctioning of DU munitions. DU stands for Depleted Uranium and is what is left over after one has finished the process of making a nuclear bomb. This poison will remain toxic for 4.5 billion years. The American military has acknowledged having a billion pounds of the stuff, how much more it really has is anybody's guess and at such levels what does it really matter? After all inhaling a couple of microns of this stuff is the equivalent to about 50 times the legal allowable limit of radioactivity for someone who works at a nuclear power plant. It is also the equivalent in one breath of the damage it would take a pack a day smoker 20 years worth of smoky inhales to 'achieve'. The U.S. military keeps this billion pounds worth of material under lock and key in guarded military installations, underground, contained by cement and stored in barrels because they have known since 1943 just how dangerous is this stuff. It is at its most dangerous when broken down into tiny particles and aerosolized. This is how the U.S. Army first used this substance after the Second World War testing its properties as a weaponized gas. The geniuses at DARPA (R&D team for the Pentagon) have however gone that one better. And what has American military science done with this nightmare leftover from the making of tens of thousands of nuclear bombs? It has used it to make ordnance and munitions. You see DU is 1.7 times the density of lead and goes through armour plating like the proverbial hot knife through butter. Simultaneously it is pyroforic (burns) and when it bursts into flames it releases millions of micron sized toxic DU particles into the air. The result of the use of thousands of tons of DU munitions in Gulf Wars I and II has been to spread trillions of micron sized particles of Depleted Uranium into the sands and air of Iraq. At least that is where it started its life or rather better said its death march. The Middle East is after all rather well known for sands and dust and winds and so where it will stop its 4.5 billion year journey nobody knows. Sufficed to say every corner of the world can expect to be visited many upon many times before this unholy waste has run the natural course of its unnatural life. If you'd like to know more about this crime against the planet and humanity simply Google: Leuren Moret DU Dr. Moret is an atomic physicist who used to work for the American military industrial complex and now has lectured in more than 40 countries worldwide about the horrors and hazards of DU munitions. By the way, skeptical doesn't believe in evolution. Isn't it obvious that he is a blind faith patriotic bible thumping Jesus freak that believes the earth is 6000 years old. He is skeptical about science, now I know you are a government goon. "

" Skepical, One issue at a time. I do not want the Stryker or any live-fire artillery practice here based on the Stryker Brigade's SEIS published July 2007. See http://www.sbct-seis.org/. I have a few comments of concern about chapter 3 page 7, Depleted Uranium. It states that in “2005 the Army identified 13 tail assemblies…spotting rounds which contained DU.” The Honolulu Advertiser reported this on Jan. 6, 2006 but there were 15 tail assemblies discovered that the military admitted to. The number is much higher than reported or admitted to. According to the eyewitness testimony from the Schofield Hawaiian Cultural monitor; “He testified before the house committee hearing H.B. 1452 that “he has seen thousands of shards from Davy Crocketts, as the ordinances are called, scattered about Schofield” (Quote from Big Island Weekly) www.bigislandweekly.com/articles/2007/02/28/read/news02.txl (I know this account is true because I was there during his testimony. The fourth paragraph under Depleted Uranium of this SEIS states: “In October 2006, a third survey of the area was conducted in areas made more accessible by a successful prescribed burn of the impact area.” How many any public health alerts were announced when the military decided to do this “prescribed burn”? What toxins were present in the smoke that drifted over downwind communities? To me, the SEIS statement below confirms that radiation and DU particles were in the smoke… “Forty-five separate locations showed Gamma levels higher than background…In total nine samples were collected (six soil samples and three fragments)…Laboratory analysis indicated that three soil samples exhibited uranium-238 above background levels. Additionally, spectroscopy analyses confirmed that the three fragments collected are comprised of DU.” There is a tiny little bit of background U238 in lava. Compared to the continental sedimentary geology it is not much, but it is not completely absent. One interesting thing about the Army testing, they tested for U238. We now have various people suggesting we test for "daughters" such as thorium, radium, radon, etc. Thorium 234 is the first step down in radioactivity after U238 gives off an alpha particle. Alpha is two protons and two neutrons, like a helium nucleus, atomic weight of four, so 238 minus four equals 234, Thorium 234. The significant thing is that the military admits U238 above background....this means they admit contamination and prove the exact point we wanted made. Depleted Uranium above background levels are here in Hawaii and there can be only one explanation how it got here. “Prescribed burns” are a public health risk. Halt all live-fire training until comprehensive testing of all active ranges can be completed. All DU testing procedures and results need to be verified by independent experts;(It is mandatory that someone guards the fox in charge of the hen house, or should I say drunk in charge of the bar?) We have a right to know the truth about how contaminated Hawaii is with depleted uranium and other toxins. "

" No, I wouldn't want my kid deliberately eating lead particles, paint, or bird shot Linda. But even with tons of lead in our everyday lives, on our wheels for balance and on our fishing lines for weight, the potential for truly harmful exposure is negligible. I'm sure there's been plenty of old houses burning down and lots of lead vapors have been released due to the paint and other things, but nobody's panicking. Could that perhaps be because a house burning down is not connected with the military and/or war? "

" I've seen those same birth defect pictures on your site on a hundred other anti-DU sites, Linda, but never have I seen any kind of proof, documentation, certification, etc of their authenticity. How do we know they are really from Iraq or Afghanistan, and not from some medical textbook? How do we know that even IF they are authentic, that they represent some significant variance from the norm, and even IF that is the case, how do we know they are due to DU and not to dozens of other factors in these war-torn areas? ~~~ When you were a nurse, did you and the doctors tend to suspect the most likely cause of an illness in order to prescribe treatment, or did you suspect the least likely cause? "

" After reading the EIS, I would certainly agree that it seems inadvisable to base the Strykers on the Big Island. Not for any reasons related to DU, however. The DU issue is effectively used as an emotional hook, simply by virtue of its name containing the word "uranium", and therefore the accompanying property of being radioactive. The fact that it's barely radioactive doesn't really register in the averge person's mind, nor does the reality of the extremely miniscule and diffuse amounts of it that MAY be left in the environment and what that means for any significant dose potential. ~~~ Dr. Pang at least seems to understand the need to do sophisticated soil testing in order to accurately test for the presence of specifically DU, and I don't think he's even an expert on radiation. Conversely, Ms. Moret is presented on TV as an "international expert on DU", waves around a hand-held geiger counter in the air and IN SOMEONE'S HOUSE for crying out loud, proclaims that her reading HAS to be because they're doing live fire with DU, and then goes around the world bragging about how she's gotten everyone to go out and buy geiger counters and follow her supposedly expert example. ~~~ I think the reporting by Allgire and KITV was EXTREMELY irresponsible, shallow and misleading, COMPOUNDED by putting it on YouTube for the world. I HOPE they do a follow-up report that includes SOME investigation of Moret's true background or lack thereof, and of her extreme bias, agenda, and let's just say "alternative" views* regarding 9/11, (inside job of course) global warming, (it's a hoax designed to further nuclear power, she says) depopulation, (evil men are trying to depopulate the earth - diabolical!) and diabetes. (caused by radiation of course, not Burger King, obesity, smoking, poor nutrition, etc.) ~~~ I would hope that their report might also include some perspective from an ACTUAL expert in radiological physics and health. ~~ * http://tinyurl.com/22gv9a "

" Siginama, You are yet another champion seeking out the truth. Thank-you for your comments. Besides the radioactivity quality of DU it has harmful effects just as a Heavy Metal. There are over one million web sites addressing heavy metal and health impacts. I'm sure skepital would not argue against the dangers of lead toxicity to our children. DU is at least 7 times heavier than lead. Dr. Diane Stearns of University of Arizona, and her team, were the first to expose the fact that uranium (which is 99% depleted)causes cell mutation as a heavy metal aside from its radioactive characteristics. I am pro- the testing of DU in Hawai'i in search for the truth. Lindafaye www.protecthawaii.ws "

" Most of the mutations caused by natural ionizing radiation are disfunctional and fail if not repaired. Getting old is a function of exposure to the cosmos and the number of flaws picked up in life. Many nuclear industry personnel fall to dementia from exposure to industrial radiation, fantaisical thinking, and denial. The healthy people just call them Strangeloves, but it's not love at all, only strange. Any overburden from nuclear industry such as reactor emissions, DU, or fallout is not healthy because in fact science recognizes that all ionizing radiation is harmful. In fact there is no known safe threshold . The studies of Petkau in the early seventies confirmed that even low levels of radiation negatively affect cellular function and that the effects of radiation are supralinear. Inhaled alpha radiation is in fact unhealthy and weakening as numerous Pentagon papers and memos confirm. Ask someone who has lived in a home with radon how their overall health is and you might be surprised at the symptoms they have. Ask a sick vet back from Iraq how his body has changed since exposure to DU. Politicians and industrialists are propping up the propaganda in favor of DU munitions and misleading the public while hollowing out their army in ways that no foreign enemy ever did. Sooner or later treason against the troops will expose the political leadership's dementia. In the meantime we will suffer the incessant misinformed yakking of unhealthy leadership. "

" The very important thing here is that testing is due to begin. The Army's tests need to be transparent and verified by independent experts. I'm still counting on Dr. Pang to be involved. I won't trust the results unless he is. Lindafaye www.protecthawaii.ws "

" "Thousands of years of evolutiionary adaption by our immune systems" ~~~ Now what in the world would cause Kathy to buy into a nutty, far-fetched theory like evolution? Could it possibly be because it's the view of the vast, vast majority of serious scientists, the kind without any obvious ideological or political agenda? "

" Kathy, I was referring more to Moret's rants about nuclear fall-out, not necessarily DU, and perhaps that was unclear. I'm not really sure if the theory about low-level radiation being good for you necessarily applies to the highly unlikely event of getting enough "DU nano-particles" inside your lungs to supposedly be a problem. ~~~ There is a LOT of research that refutes the common belief that any and all radiation is bad for humans, and it wouldn't surprise me if it turned out that exposure to DU WAS ALSO indeed actually beneficial. Google the words: low level radiation beneficial. ~~~ But my real point was that Moret is not a scientist, she's an activist. A scientist would not exclude mention of the above referenced theory when talking about bomb testing, Hiroshima and Chernobyl causing health problems, he/she would address it. A scientist would not fail to identify Saddam's nuclear sites being looted, or simple malnutrition, as being much more likely causes of increased cancers and/or birth defects in Iraq. A scientist would not ignore Saddam's sarin and U.S. innoculations as being logical culprits behind GWS, and focus on an unlikely one like DU. ~~~ A real scientist simply does not exclude and/or ignore evidence that might work against a particular theory, but anti-war, agenda-driven activists regularly do so. ~~~ All this being said, I think you're vastly overestimating the exposure potential of the relatively miniscule amount DU dust, and therefore whatever level of immune system damage that might result. ~~~ I think you'd be doing far, far, far more good for people's health by urging them to quit smoking and/or drinking and/or to stop driving while doing so. "

" "many studies that conclude that low-level radiation is actually beneficial to human health" Skeptical ---- it is precisely the form of exposure which is the problem. Thousands of years of evolutiionary adaption by our immune systems to naturally occurring radiation has resulted in organisms, including us, which are capable of handling a certain amount of this radiation on-slaught. When the form of radiation is coming from a non-soluble nanoparticle which did not occur in the environment before like cesium (or at extremely low levels) like uranium, then the ability of the immune systems etc. to respond in jeapardized, especially with poor nutrition. Do not discount that which has not been adequately disproven. The research I have seen, shows that chronic low level exposure to radionuclides (especially the burnt or fired nanoparticles)is destroying our body's ability to detoxify. Continued exposure to these and other pollutants/toxins in the environment results in disease because the DU or cesium or strontium 90 etc. have damaged our ability to fight back. Thank God the spirit of man, our souls, allows us to fight back even when we are challenged by ruthless people that think spreading depleted uranium around the planet is good for us. "

" "There is no reliable scientific or medical evidence to link DU with the ill health of either Gulf or Balkans veterans or people living in these regions. Many independent reports have been produced and researchers continue to consider the battlefield effects of using DU munitions. These reports include work by the Royal Society, the European Commission, the United Nations Environment Programme (UNEP) and the World Health Organisation (WHO). None of these organisations has found a connection between DU exposure and illness, and none has found widespread DU contamination sufficient to impact the health of the general population or deployed personnel." tinyurl.com/2pu9oc "

" As are you evidence free, Dragonslayer Predator Drone. ~~~ http://tinyurl.com/39npse ~~~ "

" Its only criminally complicit depending on which side of the fence you find yourself on. I am conscience free:) "

" I'll repeat my previous statement, because it is just SO apropos: ~~ "This kind of pathetic pathology would actually be amusing if it weren't so damaging, dangerous and criminally complicit." "

" How come the US government did not allow an investigation of the rubble of the WTC and shipped it quickly off to China? Answer: The government needed to get rid of the evidence. Is this starting to sound like a criminal operation to you? "

" I think you are having trouble proving that being exposed to DU is like taking vitamins. I guess you have not seen the hollywood photos of the deformed babies in the middle east. Take a break and watch the movies. By the way, how come the US does not provide health care to 9/11 rescuers? Answer: The government needs to get rid of the evidence. How come the US government does not take care of its soldiers health care needs once they return from combat? Answer: The government needs to get rid of the evidence. "

" I think Predator, that your lack of ability to present anything meaningful, relevant or coherent stems from the fact that you're having difficulty proving that DU has ever harmed anyone or anything outside of rats, cells in a culture or people directly hit by it. ~~~ I only hope that none of the friendly fire victims from 1991, who so far are doing just fine and are having healthy babies even after breathing lots of DU dust and receiving DU fragments into their bodies, don't come across any of these horrific predictions of their certain and imminent demise. The resulting worry alone would no doubt be more dangerous to their health and immune system than would their exposure to DU. "

" Skeptical, I'm glad you like to hear yourself thinking gibberish out loud. It makes the rest of us want to puke. Keep it up with your blah blah blah, it only shows that you have a chip on your shoulder because your team is losing:) "

" Kathy, ~~~ It certainly IS legitimate to point out that people making a certain argument also really truly do believe in complete and utter nonsense. That is absolutely relevant, and there is little doubt that ANYONE running for political office, or applying for a (real) science based job would be rejected outright based on these wacko beliefs. It not only goes to their ability to properly distinguish between legitimate analysis and fractured fairy tales, but it's also an indication of their level of gullibility and malleability based on their political and ideological beliefs. ~~~ I'm having trouble with your apparent implication that certain laboratory experiments translate into anything close to the apocalyptic scenario painted by the likes of Leuren Moret and company. ~~~ I'm not excluding the possibility that inhaling DU dust might be somewhat more harmful than is currently believed, just like recent studies have concluded that smoking pot is way more harmful than many would like for it to be, but the problem, as I see it, is real world exposure level and real world findings of negative health effects in humans, not in rats or in Petri dishes. ~~~ Also, the deliberate exclusion by anti-DUists of other far more likely sources of whatever health problems there really are is an indication of a tunnel-vision agenda, not a true concern for people's health. For instance, you'll never hear Leuren Moret, who's big thing is the horrors of world-wide low-level radiation, talk about the many studies that conclude that low-level radiation is actually beneficial to human health. And I doubt you'll ever hear her utter the word "Tuwaitha". ~~~ http://tinyurl.com/2kjvq4 "

" Attacking the messanger does you no good. Debate the data. "

" Yeah, I was gonna ask you about the colors in your world, Predator. Are they the same as in real life, or are they switched around? "

" Its not black and white but grey now, isnt it spektical. "

" Strange thing about the anti-DUists and the 9/11 zombie cultists, who in the case of Leuren Moret, Dragonslayer, Predator and even now Kathy it would seem, are one in the same.* They seem bound and determined to deny the culpability of the most obvious persons, circumstances and substances, and to place blame in the most inappropriate and unlikely places. ~~ It just COULDN'T be Muslim extremists who were responsible for 9/11 -- even though they've admitted to it and seem rather proud of it -- no, the U.S. STAGED the whole thing, don't you see? The cultists will invent ANYTHING -- from faked video by CNN of the planes hitting the towers to hijackers still being alive to all the forensic work that identified nearly every passenger on flight 77 being faked. ~~ Similarly, according to anti-DUism, increased rates of cancer and/or birth defects, (if and when there really are such increases) MUST be the result of a few tons of barely radioactive "dust" that apparently has some kind of magical attraction to people's noses. Disease and defects just absolutely COULDN'T be the result of widespread malnutrution, (a known cause of birth defects and of course cancer and lots of other maladies) the use and destruction of chemical weapons containing sarin and mustard gas, (more known carcinogens and teratogens) toxic smoke from oil well fires, or the looting of nuclear facilities that contained MEANINGFULLY radioactive materials (yellow-cake) and containers that MIGHT ACTUALLY BE dangerous. ~~ Because you see, the root fault of such factors lies not with the U.S., but with selfish dictators like Saddam Hussein, who couldn't have cared less about the well-being of his citizen propaganda puppets. ~~ The terrorists and dictators are so very strangely given a total pass. They are either completely innocent of all charges, or were understandably forced into their actions by the evil United States. ~~ This kind of pathetic pathology would actually be amusing if it weren't so damaging, dangerous and criminally complicit. ~~ * http://peaceinspace.blogs.com/911 "

" Studies on DU and other heavy metals: "Brain accumulation of depleted uranium in rats following 3- or 6-month treatment with implanted depleted uranium pellets." Pubmed ID #16943605 - results "Our data suggest that DU implanted in peripheral tissues can preferentially accumulate in specific brain regions." "Embedded Weapons-Grade Tungsten Alloy Shrapnel Rapidly Induces Metastatic High-Grade Rhabdomyosarcomas in F344 Rats" - results: "The high-dose WA-implanted rats (n = 46) developed extremely aggressive tumors surrounding the pellets within 4–5 months after implantation." (WA stands for tungsten alloy) "In vitro studies investigating malignant transformation of immortalized human cells by mixtures of tungsten, Ni, and Co suggest a synergistic effect that greatly exceeds the effects of the metals individually." Even in these studies, particles implanted were of 1-2 mm in size NOT NANOPARTICLES. Metal oxide nanoparticles are formed with the burning and exploding of DU and Tungsten munitions. Metal alloy nanoparticles form (just like the metal alloy particles described by Dr. Steven Jones in his analysis of the dust from the World Trade Center(s) collapse. See page 23 of 28 of his article entitled, "Revisiting 9/11/2001 --Applying the Scientific Method" link - http://www.journalof911studies.com/volume/200704/JonesWTC911SciMethod.pdf OK, back to the DU/tungsten science. "Absorption, accumulation and biological effects of depleted uranium in Peyer's patches of rats" - results "A quantitative analysis of uranium by ICP-MS following chronic contamination with depleted uranium during 3 or 9 months showed a preferential accumulation of uranium in Peyer's patches (1355% and 1266%, respectively, at 3 and 9 months) as compared with epithelium (890% and 747%, respectively, at 3 and 9 months). Uranium was also detected in the mesenteric lymph nodes (approximately 5-fold after contamination with DU)." Interestingly, the Peyer's Patches within the distal ileum are considered "Specified Risk Materials" in animals affected with BSE, CWD and scrapie. These cells preferrentially (big time) concentrate DU, allowing it to be absorbed into the body. Then DU has been shown to go to the brain, and other parts of the body, like the kidneys. These DU nanoparticles are capable of nucleating proteins, then causing these proteins to misfold, polymerize and aggregate. See USA patent application 20070122799 by Vitaly Vodyanoy, Auburn Univ. Alabama. "Proteon Nucleating Centers or PNCs consist of 1- to 2-nm nanoparticles that contain 40–300 non-ionic metal atoms. These nanoclusters have been shown to scavenge misfolded proteins to form proteons: clusters of up to 100,000 protein molecules with metal centers. Thus, PNCs have tremendous potential in the diagnosis and treatment of diseases associated with misfolded proteins, including prion-related diseases, neurological diseases, blood diseases and cancer." link: http://ott.auburn.edu/overview/PNC-Misfolded-Proteins.pdf "

" You got it all backwards skeptical. The media was complicit into getting us into this mess in Iraq in the first place and helped write the misleading script. CNN, FOX, CBS, NBC just write whatever they are told by the white house talking points. Media is just as independent or more so in Russia and Iran on issues that expose US criminal actions. Our mainstream media does not discuss DU, but the media in Russia and Iran can. Sorry you are having trouble with your narrow minded skeptical perspective. Its in character for you though, as you struggle to see the larger implications of DU use by the US and Israel in other middle eastern countries and the impact on their ecosystems and populations. Also, you have a real struggle with denying that a US missile hit the pentagon or that World Trade Center 7 was demolished for insurance profit scam. Cling to your messiah, King George, and watch him continue to get pursecuted by congress for violating the constitution. After all, he's just another extreme born again christian cocaine and alchohol loving addict with his finger on the button. He drives the white house like he stole it. ONCE Gonzales is gone, the gloves will come off and the justice department firewall will not protect any of them anymore. Skeptical there are a lot of evil people that want to take down this president because they see themselves in this administration and its hard to look in the mirror. "

" Of course you've got it exactly backwards, Predator. The media in The U.S. has shown little inclination to "sucking up" to their government, as evidenced by expose after expose from the Pentagon papers to Iran-Contra to Gitmo to CIA surveilance. ~~ However, the media in Iran and Russia (although Russia MAY be a little freer now) prints NOTHING that is not expressly approved by their government. And if they DO, it's the LAST time they do it. To cite a story from a state-controlled "news" source is to cite unreliable garbage. "

" Read it and weep skeptical. These countries don't suck up to your government like all the other sheep dogs. They tell it like it is. More to come! "

" Holy crap. First you cite a Russian propaganda rag, and now you're citing state-controlled Iranian media? As if we could possibly believe that anything from either of those is truthful? "

" US offers Iraq cancer and deformity Fri, 27 Jul 2007 20:37:27 By Hedieh Ghavidel, Press TV, Tehran The Iraqi environment minister has blamed the use of depleted uranium weapons by US troops during Operation Shock and Awe for the current surge in cancer cases across the country. According to Nermin Othman as a result of at least 350 sites in Iraq being contaminated with depleted uranium (DU) weapons during bombings, 'the nation is facing some 140,000 cases of cancer; with 7,000 to 8,000 new ones registered each year'. At a ministerial meeting of the Arab League, the minister said that while many chemical plants and oil facilities had been destroyed during the two military campaigns since the 1990s, the ecological consequences remain unclear. "Our ministry is fledgling, and we need international support; notably, we need laboratories to better monitor air and water contamination," she said. The first major UN research on the consequences of the use of DU in war was conducted in 2003 after the NATO operations in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Montenegro. The report concluded that DU poses little threat if spent munitions are cleared from the ground but so far no major clean-up or public awareness campaigns have been reported in Iraq. Hundreds of tons of tank-busting depleted uranium rounds have been fired by British and American forces in the Balkans and Iraq. On impact, the rounds fragment into a shower of fine particles. Scientists initially suspected that the fine particles of the heavy dust would only cause contamination over a confined area. But a research conducted by a team at Leicester University found that it can spread nearly 6 km and persists in soils for more than 25 years. After a six-year study, the Pentagon declared that the depleted uranium used in bombs was not radioactive or toxic enough to harm US soldiers. Many researchers have disagreed saying the fine dust from depleted uranium, if ingested by humans, can lead not only to cancer but also birth defects and fetal and infant death. The dust can be blown for miles, affecting innocent civilians. And this is not only for a short time period, because the radioactive effects of depleted uranium remain forever. And then there is the actual increase in cancer and birth defects in Iraq and Afghanistan after the US used depleted uranium munitions in these countries. According to the September 30 Irish Times, a senior specialist at the Basra College of Medicine said that in the ten years following the 1991 Persian Gulf War in which depleted uranium first was used "there was a 100 percent rise in child leukemia and a 242 percent increase in all cancers in the region. Birth defects are also much higher than normal. A report released by the Iraqi health ministry in Almalaf press agency indicates some 13129 malformed children have been born in Iraq in the last five years. Between 30 to 40 children per month are born with defects attributed to their mother's inhalation of radioactive dust from DU rounds. Malignancies and defects have also been on the rise in Afghanistan although no official statistics are available. Malignancies among American veterans of the Persian Gulf War and the 2003 war and birth defects among their children are also considered to have resulted from exposure to depleted uranium. Despite the unquestionable research results the US military denies any radiation risk and no soldier ill from radiation exposure will have his case handled as a battle injury. The US does not acknowledge responsibility for the lives of its soldiers and veterans or their defected children nor does it deny blame for the Iraqi genocide and the deliberate attack on the lives of the unborn Iraqi children. What provokes the hatred of the Iraqis the most is not merely the destruction the US has brought to their country but the murdering and maiming of their children. "

" The taxpayers of Hawaii should be against these bills - why waste taxpayer money for nothing. Leuren Moret put on a great theatrical piece. There is no DU in Hawaii's skies. There is no dust that will cause all sorts of ailments. Read what Blaine Howard says about how Moret faked it. The Gamma Scout Meter is incapable of measuring DU in the air yet Moret asserts that her stunt is proof positive that the Army is using DU munitions as she speaks. She pretends to be a scientist, but she is not. She was a credible laboratory researcher in silicate melts when she was in graduate school doing work at Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory and contributed enough effort to merit having her name in the paper that was published as an outgrowth of Jonathan Stebbins doctoral thesis. She has not done any science since; she has pretended to be a scientist since. She lies about who she is, what her qualifications are and what she finds and you are in a rush to spend tax dollars because of that. "

" Edit that to say Dragonslayer AND Moret. "

" "Since September 11, 2001 showed the world that airplanes can be used as weapons against humanity (infact as non-conventional flying missiles), it is not beyond reason to believe that the military plans on packing these unmanned airplanes with DU and using them as a weapon." -- Kathy ~~~ The first part of that at least implies that you're not as far gone as Dragonslayer regarding 9/11 conspiracy nonsense. However the second part illustrates how extremely misinformed you are about DU and its properties and potential for harm, and/or your level of gullibility. Actually, I guess I'm not sure if that's you talking or someone else. Boy this message board sure needs to enable paragraphs, at the very least. "

" Expansion plans for the Pinon Canyon Military Maneuver Site in Colorado, which want to eventually take over the entire SE corner of Colorado (over a million acres) is being hotly debated and challenged by the Pinon Canyon Expansion Opposition Coalition. Recent news on the subject relates how the USA military wants to test "new" unmanned plane technology ETC.... Here is a copy of some comments I just made on the subject elsewhere. Hawaiians have a responsibility to aid their fellow Americans in preventing the (further) contamination of Colorado. We will be strong in numbers. There is some new information about the environmental assessment of the military's activities at Hawaii. This information will directly relate to similar impacts in Colorado. You can go to these links for the information. Army Times website: Strykers harmful to Hawaii environs http://www.armytimes.com/news/2007/07/ap_strykerbrigadehawaii_070721/ EIS: http://www.sbct-seis.org/Executive summary: http://www.sbct-seis.org/documents/Exec_Sum.pdf I would just like to comment, at this time, that UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES will Canadians accept the "testing" of these new military systems by the USA military on Canadian soil. As I watch this battle in Colorado over the MASSIVE expansion of the Pinon Canyon site, the hair on my neck rises. Many of these "new" systems and unmanned airplanes are proposed to be built and/or tested in Canada. Lougheed Martin and other such companies are working on this in Southern Alberta (Lethbridge and Spring Bank on a project which they claim is for unmanned and manned planes). Presently, the Canadian government is selling out our Country to the Security and Prosperity Partnership (the three amigos - the North American Union). In the Canadian Gazette, the government has published new regulations governing many nuclear activities - trying to harmonize them with the USA. One such ruling will allow the manufacturers of planes to use depleted uranium as counterweights (within the planes). They will be allowed to possess "ANY AMOUNT" of DU (depleted uranium U238) without a license. The DU is manufactured into actual parts of the plane, but for "safety" they must be marked appropriately. Since September 11, 2001 showed the world that airplanes can be used as weapons against humanity (infact as non-conventional flying missiles), it is not beyond reason to believe that the military plans on packing these unmanned airplanes with DU and using them as a weapon (ie: not just for surveillance). It is against Canadian law to use any uranium from Canada for weapons. This law is not presently being enforced, and members of the military industrial complex and their suppliers are able to utilize Canadian uranium for so-called dirty bombs and bullets. Yes, they are effective. However, the debris is persistant and toxic.. It is nondiscriminant and destroys the immune system of man and beast. Stable lead 206 is the final end product of the decay series of uranium 238. We are all aware how dangerous lead can be, it is imperative that we all understand that the daughter decay products above lead in the U238 decay series are even more toxic than lead. In Alberta (where I am from) chronic wasting disease (CWD) in deer and elk is being found in areas directly associated with: The Suffield CFB in South-East Alberta (huntng zones CWD is being monitored are north, east and south of the base. The Wainwright CFB (Canadian Forces Base) - (hunting zones east and north to another CFB called Cold Lake) are the areas with CWD. The Namao CFB north of Edmonton, Alberta. These zones are sources of wild and domestic CWD cases. The hunting zones being monitored reach from east to west, on the northern zones of Edmonton and area, all the way up to the Swan Hills Incinerator for high-temperature burning of "special" toxic waste. See page two at this website for the zones being monitored for CWD in Alberta - and their relationship to the above locations: http://www.srd.gov.ab.ca/fishwildlife/livingwith/diseases/pdf/ 2006_AB_Sask_border_prg.pdf Metal contamination of the prion protein associated with CWD and BSE (other TSEs), has been confirmed by many researchers. Burning of waste at the Swan Hills Incinerator will not get rid of the metals (including any radiological metals). Indeed, it gasifies the metal then when it recondenses it forms non-ionic metal spheres. These non-ionic metal spheres contaminate the environment down-wind of where they are made and released, eg. the incinerator at Swan Hills, AND, just like the Depleted Uranium munitions used by the military. Without proper testing and identification of the rogue metals contaminating the prion proteins associated with CWD - there is no way to rule out DU as the cause (or at very least) a contributing factor in CWD. Please read Dr. Vitaly Vodyanoys USA patent application 20070122799. The father of the prion hypothesis, Dr. STanley Prusiner of University of California, has shown in several of his own research papers - that uranyl acetate (containing similar spherical uranium nanoparticles) is capable of seeding crystals of prions. Several other metals used in negative stains, did not. It is time for the ranchers and citizens of Colorado to examine the true reasons why the military wants to expand Pinon Canyon, and put a stop to further contamination of the planet. Canada allowed the testing of "cruise missiles" at our Cold Lake CFB (and maybe at other bases we weren't told about). Foreign military (NATO) countries have been utilizing CFB Suffield since WWII. A base that is 664,000 acres large. It is not just for maneuvering exercises, but also for "biological" research. My husband's uncle was one of the Canadian soldiers used as guinea pigs at the Suffield base during WWII. He, and many others were exposed to mustard gas and other nerve agents. He survived his ordeal, but lives a life with chronic lung problems. Others, he states, died immediately after the test. Many more suffered for years before their deaths. This is what the military industrial complex finds acceptable. "

" Kathy: "Chernobyl was a terrible accident, but no one is served by misrepresenting its consequences. Documentaries distorting the truth pose a more serious problem because they have a stamp of authority and are trusted. Here that trust was betrayed, not just by the Chernobyl Children's Project releasing a documentary with mangled facts, but also by Hollywood granting it an Academy Award with no apparent effort to check them. The Chernobyl Children's Project should be given credit for its charitable work, but its documentary should be criticized rather than applauded. Certainly HBO should pull it from the air, and the National Education Association should discourage its use as an educational aid for the children of America." ~~~ http://tinyurl.com/32snw2 ~~~ You have been had, Kathy. Unfortunately, so have the people living in the area of the accident. They have been incredibly ill-served by lies and distortions on the part of agenda driven activists, and by faulty information passed on by I'm sure well meaning individuals such as yourself. "

" Of course cancer of any kind developing within a few years from exposure to an extremely weak radioactive substance is ridiculous and impossible on its face. "

" LOL. You get your news from a Russian propaganda rag? The same one that seriously presented this ridiculous story via a 9/11 conspiracy crackpot: "WASHINGTON, July 20 (RIA Novosti) - A former Reagan official has issued a public warning that the Bush administration is preparing to orchestrate a staged terrorist attack in the United States, transform the country into a dictatorship and launch a war with Iran within a year." ~~ http://en.rian.ru/world/20070720/69340886.html ~~ The giveaway in your story is this paragraph: "Speaking at a ministerial meeting of the Arab League, she also complained that many chemical plants and oil facilities had been destroyed during the two military campaigns since the 1990s, but the ecological consequences remain unclear." ~~ Ecological? What she so strangely excludes is the carcinogenic and teratological effects of such destruction. ~~ "The increase in the number of Iraqi cancer registrations may be due in part to exposure to CHEMICAL CARCINOGENS. Of relevance to war is the agent BENZENE, which has been established as an occupational cause of ACUTE MYELOID LEUKAEMIA. This is relevant on battlefields since the advent of mechanized warfare because the residues include partially burnt hydrocarbons from fuels, explosives, propellants and plastics. For the Gulf War, there is also the Kuwait oil fires to take into consideration. The retreating Iraqi forces set the Kuwait oil fields alight and the smoke generated was carried by the prevailing winds over Iraq. The types and quantities of soot formed were known to have caused lung damage and, in addition, the soot would have contained large quantities of POLYCYCLIC AROMATIC HYDROCARBONS, KNOWN CARCINOGENS. It is not known where Iraqi chemical and biological weapons stockpiles were sited and whether any were blown up, but certainly chemical warfare was used in the Iraq–Iran war of 1981–88, sulphur mustard being one of the agents. The long-term effects of exposure are known to include damage to the immune system, BIRTH DEFECTS AND ELEVATED INCIDENCES OF LEUKAEMIA AND LYMPHOMA". -- Karol Sikora, cancer expert, British Journal of Radiology 2001. "

" Kathy what you say is music to my ears! Here comes the real blowback....The rising awareness in Iraq about what the allies have done to their environment will force the international community to charge the bush/cheney government for war crimes and violating the Geneva Convention which is considered part of the US constitution! Its only a matter of time before the roof caves over their heads. Even the Democrats can't stop the war machine now. Iraqis blame U.S. depleted uranium for surge in cancer 19:20 | 23/ 07/ 2007 CAIRO, July 23 (RIA Novosti) - Iraq's environment minister blamed Monday the use of depleted uranium weapons by U.S. forces during the 2003 Operation Shock and Awe for the current surge in cancer cases across the country. As a result of "at least 350 sites in Iraq being contaminated during bombing" with depleted uranium (DU) weapons, Nermin Othman said, the nation is facing about 140,000 cases of cancer, with 7,000 to 8,000 new ones registered each year. Speaking at a ministerial meeting of the Arab League, she also complained that many chemical plants and oil facilities had been destroyed during the two military campaigns since the 1990s, but the ecological consequences remain unclear. "Our ministry is fledgling, and we need international support; notably, we need laboratories to better monitor air and water contamination," she said. The first major UN research on the consequences of the use of DU on the battlefield was conducted in 2003 in the wake of NATO operations in Kosovo, Bosnia, and Montenegro. The UN Environment Program (UNEP) said in its report after the research that DU poses little threat if spent munitions are cleared from the ground. "Health risks primarily depend on the awareness of people coming into contact with DU," UNEP writes in its 2004 brochure "Depleted Uranium Awareness." No major clean-up or public awareness campaigns have been reported in Iraq. "

" Skeptical you are unbelievably ignorant of the facts. Who I believe is those that provide the most evidence, including science from areas outside of depleted uranium issues. Metal nanoparticles are a whole new science because nanoparticles behave very differently from larger particles. As far as your claim that the pictures of the Iraqi children being fake - I questioned this issue as well, then I saw a documentary on Chernobyl entitled "Chernobyl Heart" from the Children of Chernobyl project. This live video of children suffering from the effects of ionizing radiation from living in the contaminated regions, especially Belarus and Ukraine, shows living, breathing, suffering children and they are no different than those children in Iraq. "The Doctor, The Depleted Uranium and The children" documentary shows how Dr. Gunter of Germany was charged, fined and thrown in jail for bring home to Germany ONE DU round from Iraq (to have radiologically tested). These spent DU rounds are littering the ground in Afganastan and Iraq, and other countries, as well as munitions ranges where the military practices with it. Nuclear power is an option for people who choice to irradiated the population to death. The global warming issue, does not require nuclear power to clean the air - it requires a substantial shift in how we live our lives. Our dependency upon non-renewable energy is our problem. Nuclear power is only around because it supplies the military with what they believe is a necessary tool - plutonium and DU. I'd rather sit in the dark burning "cow dung chips" than support a power system that slowly and effectively destroys our genetic DNA. "

" From the article: ~~~ "Another West Hawai`i citizen's group member Barbara Moore said she, as a resident and B&B owner, has already seen the effects the threat of DU has had on her clientele. One past visitor, who was planning on relocating to the island, changed her plans after learning about and watching the KITV brief on the hazards of DU." ~~~ Of course that's music to vagabond Leuren's ears, but if you work or operate a business on the Big Island, or anywhere near one of these activist's latest targets, this paragraph should anger you and scare you to death. No, NOT because there's really any danger whatsoever posed by whatever miniscule amounts of DU "dust" molecules that may be floating around and happen to go up your nose, but because this scare-mongering has no scientific validity. Therefore, it's offensive, destructive and should NOT be tolerated by good folks trying to make a living. I would suggest writing the author of this article, and suggest that there be some kind of valid scientific "2nd opinion", above and beyond that of a bunch of unqualified activists with an anti-nuclear/mililtary agenda. ~~~ What really needs to be said here, and what I've tried to illustrate by the Australian media example, is that this piece, and the TV report by Dick Allgire, is irresponsible journalism which enables pseudo-scientists like Leuren to advance their warped agenda by lobbing bombs of fear and falsity into communities -- jeopardizing their economic well-being, dividing neighbor against neighbor and then just winging away to their next convenient target community. ~~~ http://tinyurl.com/2pck7o "

" The government and military distort and lie about everything. They have lost credibility already in fighting their war in the middle east. We will likely be in WWIII by August and its all smoke and mirrors from the governments. "

" I guess it all boils down to who are you going to believe. Are you going to believe doctors and Iraqi officials under the thumb of Saddam Hussein, who had every incentive to distort and invent the effects of war and sanctions on his people, and to distract from his own unwillingness to put the welfare of his people above his own personal power, prestige and wealth, and also to distract from his own activities that might be responsible for people's misery? Are you going to believe someone like Doug Rokke, who like Moret misrepresents his radiological/medical expertise, and for a long time tried to claim that 30 of his fellow "DU janitors" were dead, except that they weren't? Are you going to believe that obscene birth defect pictures are actually of Iraqi children and not from some medical textbook, or if they are that they represent a deviance from the norm, or if that is the case that it couldn't be due to other far more likely causes? ~~~ Or are you going to believe the vast, vast majority of professional, peer reviewed opinion on the matter that dictates that these defects in no way could have occurred because of DU? "

" "The claims against the form of uranium wielded in Iraq, called depleted uranium, are being publicised in major international media, few being more persistent than our own Australian Broadcasting Corporation. None would appear to be more influential, however, than Al Jazeera, the Middle East outlet known for broadcasting to millions the speeches of Osama bin Laden and the spectacle of atrocities by his followers. According to Al Jazeera, depleted uranium has “ruined the lives of just under 300,000 people during the last decade—and numbers will increase”, meaning “thousands upon thousands of Iraqi children will suffer for tens of thousands of years to come” with “by far the most devastating effect [being] on unborn children”. ~~ THOSE DENYING the claims that depleted uranium has these effects include the World Health Organisation, the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR), the UN Environment Program, the Royal Society, the Rand Corporation and multiple lesser authorities. Peer-reviewed monographs, editorials, articles and comments appear regularly in the medical and scientific literature in refutation of the claims, but these sources appear ignored by the ABC and other media who, curiously, in OTHER matters, can be predicted to PROMOTE the wisdom and authority of the United Nations and its various branches." ~~~ http://quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=1198 "

" Kathy ~~ First of all, it's not MY quote, it's from the author of the linked article. Secondly, it's just one of many excellent reasons for not distorting and exaggerating the health effects of DU. Thirdly, I happen to agree, that nuclear power is going to be necessary to support the energy requirements of growing populations and growing economies, that is if you agree that CO2 needs to be reduced anywhere close to the amounts necessary to make any difference in the climate equation. At least, this option MUST considered through the lens of accurate science and properly informed public opinion, not from the distorted viewpoint advanced by the anti-DUists. ~~ http://tinyurl.com/8bfnk "

" [quote from skeptical - "THIRD, if there is any truth in the dangers of global warming, not to mention the dangers of remaining dependent on Middle East oil, it is time for reasoned consideration of nuclear energy.] Well golly, wouldn't want to suggest using less energy, conservation, using alternative forms of energy like wind or solar, or geothermal. Why is it that everyone assumes that society can just continue to expand and use more "non-renewable" energy. There is little to no effort being made to promote the reduction of power being consumed. The amount of energy required for the military alone must be astronomical. It is just to bad that seeing the deformed babies upsets people. You cannot ignore them, like the US government ignores its soldiers with GWS, and tells them their illness is "all in their heads". Perhaps it is all in their heads, as the nanoparticles of DU (and many other industrial metal pollutants) are (as Dragonslayer stated)... translocating from the nasal passages directly via the olfactory nerves to the brain. Perhaps the DoD and DoE should start a volunteer list for those that think DU is safe; they can volunteer to be guinea pigs for independent researchers to examine the effects of DU. "

" DEPLETED URANIUM — FAR WORSE THAN 9/11 http://www.oilcrash.com/articles/du_02.htm by Douglas Westerman Depleted Uranium Dust — Public Health Disaster For The People Of Iraq and Afghanistan. In 1979, depleted uranium (DU) particles escaped from the National Lead Industries factory near Albany, N.Y., which was manufacturing DU weapons for the U.S military. The particles traveled 26 miles and were discovered in a laboratory filter by Dr. Leonard Dietz, a nuclear physicist. This discovery led to a shut down of the factory in 1980, for releasing more than 0.85 pounds of DU dust into the atmosphere every month, and involved a cleanup of contaminated properties costing over 100 million dollars. Imagine a far worse scenario. Terrorists acquire a million pounds of the deadly dust and scatter it in populated areas throughout the U.S. Hundreds of children report symptoms. Many acquire cancer and leukemia, suffering an early and painful death. Huge increases in severe birth defects are reported. Oncologists are overwhelmed. Soccer fields, sand lots and parks, traditional play areas for kids, are no longer safe. People lose their most basic freedom, the ability to go outside and safely breathe. Sounds worse than 9/11? Welcome to Iraq and Afghanistan. Dr. Jawad Al-Ali (55), director of the Oncology Center at the largest hospital in Basra, Iraq stated, at a recent (2003) conference in Japan: «Two strange phenomena have come about in Basra which I have never seen before. The first is double and triple cancers in one patient. For example, leukemia and cancer of the stomach. We had one patient with 2 cancers — one in his stomach and kidney. Months later, primary cancer was developing in his other kidney — he had three different cancer types. The second is the clustering of cancer in families. We have 58 families here with more than one person affected by cancer. Dr Yasin, a general Surgeon here has two uncles, a sister and cousin affected with cancer. Dr Mazen, another specialist, has six family members suffering from cancer. My wife has nine members of her family with cancer». «Children in particular are susceptible to DU poisoning. They have a much higher absorption rate as their blood is being used to build and nourish their bones and they have a lot of soft tissues. Bone cancer and leukemia used to be diseases affecting them the most, however, cancer of the lymph system which can develop anywhere on the body, and has rarely been seen before the age of 12 is now also common.». «We were accused of spreading propaganda for Saddam before the war. When I have gone to do talks I have had people accuse me of being pro-Saddam. Sometimes I feel afraid to even talk. Regime people have been stealing my data and calling it their own, and using it for their own agendas. The Kuwaitis banned me from entering Kuwait — we were accused of being Saddam supporters.» John Hanchette, a journalism professor at St. Bonaventure University, and one of the founding editors of USA TODAY related the following to DU researcher Leuren Moret. He stated that he had prepared news breaking stories about the effects of DU on Gulf War soldiers and Iraqi citizens, but that each time he was ready to publish, he received a phone call from the Pentagon asking him not to print the story. He has since been replaced as editor of USA TODAY. Dr. Keith Baverstock, The World Health Organization’s chief expert on radiation and health for 11 years and author of an unpublished study has charged that his report «on the cancer risk to civilians in Iraq from breathing uranium contaminated dust» was also deliberately suppressed. The information released by the U.S. Dept. of Defense is not reliable, according to some sources even within the military. In 1997, while citing experiments, by others, in which 84 percent of dogs exposed to inhaled uranium died of cancer of the lungs, Dr. Asaf Durakovic, then Professor of Radiology and Nuclear Medicine at Georgetown University in Washington was quoted as saying: «The [US government’s] Veterans Administration asked me to lie about the risks of incorporating depleted uranium in the human body.» At that time Dr. Durakovic was a colonel in the U.S. Army. He has since left the military, to found the Uranium Medical Research Center, a privately funded organization with headquarters in Canada. PFC Stuart Grainger of 23 Army Division, 34th Platoon. (Names and numbers have been changed) was diagnosed with cancer several after returning from Iraq. Seven other men in the Platoon also have malignancies. Doug Rokke, U.S. Army contractor who headed a clean-up of depleted uranium after the first Gulf War states: «Depleted uranium is a crime against God and humanity.» Rokke’s own crew, a hundred employees, was devastated by exposure to the fine dust. He stated: «When we went to the Gulf, we were all really healthy.» After performing clean-up operations in the desert (mistakenly without protective gear), 30 members of his staff died, and most others «including Rokke himself» developed serious health problems. Rokke now has reactive airway disease, neurological damage, cataracts, and kidney problems. «We warned the Department of Defense in 1991 after the Gulf War. Their arrogance is beyond comprehension.» Yet the D.O.D still insists such ingestion is «not sufficient to make troops seriously ill in most cases.» Then why did it make the clean up crew seriously or terminally ill in nearly all cases? Marion Falk, a retired chemical physicist who built nuclear bombs for more than 20 years at Lawrence Livermore Lab, was asked if he thought that DU weapons operate in a similar manner as a dirty bomb. «That’s exactly what they are. They fit the description of a dirty bomb in every way.» According to Falk, more than 30 percent of the DU fired from the cannons of U.S. tanks is reduced to particles one-tenth of a micron (one millionth of a meter) in size or smaller on impact. «The larger the bang» the greater the amount of DU that is dispersed into the atmosphere, Falk said. With the larger missiles and bombs, nearly 100 percent of the DU is reduced to radioactive dust particles of the “micron size” or smaller, he said. When asked if the main purpose for using it was for destroying things and killing people, Falk was more specific: «I would say that it is the perfect weapon for killing lots of people.» When a DU round or bomb strikes a hard target, most of its kinetic energy is converted to heat «sufficient heat to ignite the DU. From 40% to 70% of the DU is converted to extremely fine dust particles of ceramic uranium oxide (primarily dioxide, though other formulations also occur). Over 60% of these particles are smaller than 5 microns in diameter, about the same size as the cigarette ash particles in cigarette smoke and therefore respirable. Because conditions are so chaotic in Iraq, the medical infrastructure has been greatly compromised. In terms of both cancer and birth defects due to DU, only a small fraction of the cases are being reported. Doctors in southern Iraq are making comparisons to the birth defects that followed the atomic bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki in WWII. They have numerous photos of infants born without brains, with their internal organs outside their bodies, without sexual organs, without spines, and the list of deformities goes on an on. Such birth defects were extremely rare in Iraq prior to the large scale use of DU weapons. Now they are commonplace. In hospitals across Iraq, the mothers are no longer asking, «Doctor, is it a boy or girl?» but rather, «Doctor, is it normal?» The photos are horrendous, they can be viewed on the following website Ross B. Mirkarimi, a spokesman at The Arms Control Research Centre stated: «Unborn children of the region are being asked to pay the highest price, the integrity of their DNA.» Prior to her death from leukemia in Sept. 2004, Nuha Al Radi , an accomplished Iraqi artist and author of the «Baghdad Diaries» wrote: «Everyone seems to be dying of cancer. Every day one hears about another acquaintance or friend of a friend dying. How many more die in hospitals that one does not know? Apparently, over thirty percent of Iraqis have cancer, and there are lots of kids with leukemia.» «The depleted uranium left by the U.S. bombing campaign has turned Iraq into a cancer-infested country. For hundreds of years to come, the effects of the uranium will continue to wreak havoc on Iraq and its surrounding areas.» This excerpt in her diary was written in 1993, after Gulf War I (Approximately 300 tons of DU ordinance, mostly in desert areas) but before Operation Iraqi Freedom, (Est. 1,700 tons with much more near major population centers). So, it’s 5-6 times worse now than it was when she wrote than diary entry!! Estimates of the percentage of D.U. which was ‘aerosolized’ into fine uranium oxide dust are approximately 30-40%. That works out to over one million pounds of dust scattered throughout Iraq. As a special advisor to the World Health Organization, the United Nations, and the Iraqi Ministry of Health, Dr. Ahmad Hardan has documented the effects of DU in Iraq between 1991 and 2002. «American forces admit to using over 300 tons of DU weapons in 1991. The actual figure is closer to 800. This has caused a health crisis that has affected almost a third of a million people. As if that was not enough, America went on and used 200 tons more in Bagdad alone during the recent invasion. I don’t know about other parts of Iraq, it will take me years to document that.» «In Basra, it took us two years to obtain conclusive proof of what DU does, but we now know what to look for and the results are terrifying.» By far the most devastating effect is on unborn children. Nothing can prepare anyone for the sight of hundreds of preserved fetuses “scarcely human in appearance”. Iraq is now seeing babies with terribly foreshortened limbs, with their intestines outside their bodies, with huge bulging tumors where their eyes should be, or with a single eye-like Cyclops, or without eyes, or without limbs, and even without heads. Significantly, some of the defects are almost unknown outside textbooks showing the babies born near A-bomb test sites in the Pacific. Dr. Hardan also states: «I arranged for a delegation from Japan’s Hiroshima Hospital to come and share their expertise in the radiological diseases we are likely to face over time. The delegation told me the Americans had objected and they decided not to come. Similarly, a world famous German cancer specialist agreed to come, only to be told later that he would not be given permission to enter Iraq.» Not only are we poisoning the people of Iraq and Afghanistan, but we are making a concerted effort to keep out specialists from other countries who can help. The U.S. Military doesn’t want the rest of the world to find out what we have done. Such relatively swift development of cancers has been reported by doctors in hospitals treating civilians following NATO bombing with DU in Yugoslavia in 1998-1999 and the US military invasion of Iraq using DU for the first time in 1991. Medical experts report that this phenomenon of multiple malignancies from unrelated causes has been unknown until now and is a new syndrome associated with internal DU exposure. Just 467 US personnel were wounded in the three-week Persian Gulf War in 1990-1991. Out of 580,400 soldiers who served in Gulf War I, 11,000 are dead, and by 2000 there were 325,000 on permanent medical disability. This astounding number of disabled vets means that a decade later, 56 percent of those soldiers who served in the first Gulf War now have medical problems. Although not reported in the mainstream American press, a recent Tokyo tribunal, guided by the principles of International Criminal Law and International Humanitarian Law , found President George W. Bush guilty of war crimes. On March 14, 2004, Nao Shimoyachi, reported in The Japan Times that President Bush was found guilty «for attacking civilians with indiscriminate weapons and other arms,» and the «tribunal also issued recommendations for banning Depleted Uranium shells and other weapons that indiscriminately harm people.» Although this was a “Citizen’s Court” having no legal authority, the participants were sincere in their determination that international laws have been violated and a war crimes conviction is warranted. Troops involved in actual combat are not the only servicemen reporting symptoms. Four soldiers from a New York Army National Guard company serving in Iraq are among several members of the same company, the 442nd Military Police, who say they have been battling persistent physical ailments that began last summer in the Iraqi town of Samawah. «I got sick instantly in June,» said Staff Sgt. Ray Ramos, a Brooklyn housing cop. «My health kept going downhill with daily headaches, constant numbness in my hands and rashes on my stomach.» Dr. Asaf Durakovic, UMRC founder, and nuclear medicine expert examined and tested nine soldiers from the company says that four “almost certainly” inhaled radioactive dust from exploded American shells manufactured with depleted uranium. Laboratory tests revealed traces of two manmade forms of uranium in urine samples from four of the soldiers. If so, the men — Sgt. Hector Vega, Sgt. Ray Ramos, Sgt. Agustin Matos and Cpl. Anthony Yonnone — are the first confirmed cases of inhaled depleted uranium exposure from the current Iraq conflict. The 442nd, made up for the most part of New York cops, firefighters and correction officers, is based in Orangeburg, Rockland County. Dispatched to Iraq in Easter of 2003, the unit’s members had been providing guard duty for convoys, running jails and training Iraqi police. The entire company is due to return home later this month. «These are amazing results, especially since these soldiers were military police not exposed to the heat of battle,» said Dr. Asaf Duracovic, who examined the G.I.s and performed the testing. In a group of eight U.S. led Coalition servicemen whose babies were born without eyes, seven are known to have been directly exposed to DU dust. In a much group (250 soldiers) exposed during the first Gulf war, 67% of the children conceived after the war had birth defects. Dr. Durakovic’s UMRC research team also conducted a three-week field trip to Iraq in October of 2003. It collected about 100 samples of substances such as soil, civilian urine and the tissue from the corpses of Iraqi soldiers in 10 cities, including Baghdad, Basra and Najaf. Durakovic said preliminary tests show that the air, soil and water samples contained “hundreds to thousands of times” the normal levels of radiation. «This high level of contamination is because much more depleted uranium was used this year than in (the Gulf War of) 1991,» Durakovic told The Japan Times. «They are hampering efforts to prove the connection between Depleted Uranium and the illness,» Durakovic said. «They do not want to admit that they committed war crimes by using weapons that kill indiscriminately, which are banned under international law.» (NOTE ABOUT DR. DURAKOVIC: First, he was warned to stop his work, then he was fired from his position, then his house was ransacked, and he has also reported receiving death threats. Evidently the U.S. D.O.D is very keen on censoring DU whistle-blowers!) Dr. Durakovic, UMRC research associates Patricia Horan and Leonard Dietz, published a unique study in the August 2002 issue of Military Medicine Medical Journal. The study is believed to be the first to look at inhaled DU among Gulf War veterans, using the ultrasensitive technique of thermal ionization mass spectrometry, which enabled them to easily distinguish between natural uranium and DU. The study, which examined British, Canadian and U.S. veterans, all suffering typical Gulf War Syndrome ailments, found that, nine years after the war, 14 of 27 veterans studied had DU in their urine. DU also was found in the lung and bone of a deceased Gulf War veteran. That no governmental study has been done on inhaled DU “amounts to a massive malpractice,” Dietz said in an interview. The Japanese began studying DU effects in the southern Iraq in the summer of 2003. They had a Geiger counter which they watched go off the scale on many occasions. During their visit,a local hospital was treating upwards of 600 children per day, many of which suffered symptoms of internal poisoning by radiation. 600 children per day? How many of these children will get cancer and suffer an early and painful death? «Ingested DU particles can cause up to 1,000 times the damage of an X-ray», said Mary Olson, a nuclear waste specialist and biologist at the Nuclear Information and Resource Service in Washington D.C. It is this difference in particle size as well as the dust’s crystalline structure that make the presence of DU dust in the environment such an extreme hazard, and which differentiates its properties from that of the natural uranium dust that is ubiquitous and to which we all are exposed every day, which seldom reaches such a small size. This point is being stressed, as comparing DU particles to much larger natural ones is misleading. The U.S. Military and its supporters regularly quote a Rand Corp. Study which uses the natural uranium inhaled by miners. Particles smaller than 10 microns can access the innermost recesses of lung tissue where they become permanently lodged. Furthermore, if the substance is relatively insoluble, such as the ceramic DU-oxide dust produced from burning DU, it will remain in place for decades, dissolving very slowly into the bloodstream and lymphatic fluids through the course of time. Studies have identified DU in the urine of Gulf War veterans nine years after that conflict, testifying to the permanence of ceramic DU-oxide in the lungs. Thus the effects are far different from natural uranium dust, whose coarse particles are almost entirely excreted by the body within 24 hours. The military is aware of DU’s harmful effects on the human genetic code. A 2001 study of DU’s effect on DNA done by Dr. Alexandra C. Miller for the Armed Forces Radiobiology Research Institute in Bethesda, Md., indicates that DU’s chemical instability causes 1 million times more genetic damage than would be expected from its radiation effect alone. Studies have shown that inhaled nano-particles are far more toxic than micro-sized particles of the same basic chemical composition. British toxicopathologist Vyvyan Howard has reported that the increased toxicity of the nano-particle is due to its size. For example, when mice were exposed to virus-size particles of Teflon (0.13 microns) in a University of Rochester study, there were no ill effects. But when mice were exposed to nano-particles of Teflon for 15 minutes, nearly all the mice died within 4 hours. «Exposure pathways for depleted uranium can be through the skin, by inhalation, and ingestion,» writes Lauren Moret, another DU researcher. «Nano-particles have high mobility and can easily enter the body. Inhalation of nano-particles of depleted uranium is the most hazardous exposure, because the particles pass through the lung-blood barrier directly into the blood. «When inhaled through the nose, nano-particles can cross the olfactory bulb directly into the brain through the blood brain barrier, where they migrate all through the brain,» she wrote. «Many Gulf era soldiers exposed to depleted uranium have been diagnosed with brain tumors, brain damage and impaired thought processes. Uranium can interfere with the mitochondria, which provide energy for the nerve processes, and transmittal of the nerve signal across synapses in the brain.» Based on dissolution and excretion rate data, it is possible to approximate the amount of DU initially inhaled by these veterans. For the handful of veterans studied, this amount averaged 0.34 milligrams. Knowing the specific activity (radiation rate) for DU allows one to determine that the total radiation (alpha, beta and gamma) occurring from DU and its radioactive decay products within their bodies comes to about 26 radiation events every second, or 800 million events each year. At .34 milligrams per dose, there are over 10 trillion doses floating around Iraq and Afghanistan. How many additional deaths are we talking about? In the aftermath of the first Gulf War, the UK Atomic Energy Authority came up with estimates for the potential effects of the DU contamination left by the conflict. It calculated that “this could cause “500,000 potential deaths”. This was “a theoretical figure”, it stressed, that indicated “a significant problem”. The AEA’s calculation was made in a confidential memo to the privatized munitions company, Royal Ordnance, dated 30 April 1991. The high number of potential deaths was dismissed as “very far from realistic” by a British defense minister, Lord Gilbert. «Since the rounds were fired in the desert, many miles from the nearest village, it is highly unlikely that the local population would have been exposed to any significant amount of respirable oxide,» he said. These remarks were made prior to the more recent invasions of both Afghanistan and Iraq, where DU munitions were used on a larger scale in and near many of the most populated areas. If the amount of DU ordinance used in the first Gulf War was sufficient to cause 500,000 potential deaths, (had it been used near the populated areas), then what of the nearly six times that amount used in operation Iraqi Freedom, which was used in and near the major towns and cities? Extrapolating the U.K. AEA estimate with this amount gives a figure of potentially 3 million extra deaths from inhaling DU dust in Iraq alone, not including Afghanistan. This is about 11% of Iraq’s total population of 27 million. Dan Bishop, Ph.d chemist for IDUST feels that this estimate may be low, if the long life of DU dust is considered. In Afghanistan, the concentration in some areas is greater than Iraq. What can an otherwise healthy person expect when inhaling the deadly dust? Captain Terry Riordon was a member of the Canadian Armed Forces serving in Gulf War I. He passed away in April 1999 at age 45. Terry left Canada a very fit man who did cross-country skiing and ran in marathons. On his return only two months later he could barely walk. He returned to Canada in February 1991 with documented loss of motor control, chronic fatigue, respiratory difficulties, chest pain, difficulty breathing, sleep problems, short-term memory loss, testicle pain, body pains, aching bones, diarrhea, and depression. After his death, depleted uranium contamination was discovered in his lungs and bones. For eight years he suffered his innumerable ailments and struggled with the military bureaucracy and the system to get proper diagnosis and treatment. He had arranged, upon his death, to bequeath his body to the UMRC. Through his gift, the UMRC was able to obtain conclusive evidence that inhaling fine particles of depleted uranium dust completely destroyed his health. How many Terry Riordans are out there among the troops being exposed, not to mention Iraqi and Afghan civilians? Inhaling the dust will not kill large numbers of Iraqi and Afghan civilians right away, any more than it did Captain Riordan. Rather, what we will see is vast numbers of people who are chronically and severely ill, having their life spans drastically shortened, many with multiple cancers. Melissa Sterry, another sick veteran, served for six months at a supply base in Kuwait during the winter of 1991-92. Part of her job with the National Guard’s Combat Equipment Company “A” was to clean out tanks and other armored vehicles that had been used during the war, preparing them for storage. She said she swept out the armored vehicles, cleaning up dust, sand and debris, sometimes being ordered to help bury contaminated parts. In a telephone interview, she stated that after researching depleted uranium she chose not to take the military’s test because she could not trust the results. It is alarming that Melissa was stationed in Kuwait, not Iraq. Cleaning out tanks with DU dust was enough to make her ill. In, 2003, the Christian Science Monitor sent reporters to Iraq to investigate long-term effects of depleted uranium. Staff writer Scott Peterson saw children playing on top of a burnt-out tank near a vegetable stand on the outskirts of Baghdad, a tank that had been destroyed by armor-piercing shells coated with depleted uranium. Wearing his mask and protective clothing, he pointed his Geiger counter toward the tank. It registered 1,000 times the normal background radiation. If the troops were on a mission of mercy to bring democracy to Iraq, wouldn’t keeping children away from such dangers be the top priority? The laws of war prohibit the use of weapons that have deadly and inhumane effects beyond the field of battle. Nor can weapons be legally deployed in war when they are known to remain active, or cause harm after the war concludes. It is no surprise that the Japanese Court found President Bush guilty of war crimes. Dr. Alim Yacoub of Basra University conducted an epidemiological study into incidences of malignancies in children under fifteen years old, in the Basra area (an area bombed with DU during the first Gulf War). They found over the 1990 to 1999 period, there was a 242% rise. That was before the recent invasion. In Kosovo, similar spikes in cancer and birth defects were noticed by numerous international experts, although the quantity of DU weapons used was only a small fraction of what was used in Iraq. FIELD STUDY RESULTS FROM AFGHANISTAN Verifiable statistics for Iraq will remain elusive for some time, but widespread field studies in Afghanistan point to the existence of a large scale public health disaster. In May of 2002, the UMRC (Uranium Medical Research Center) sent a field team to interview and examine residents and internally displaced people in Afghanistan. The UMRC field team began by first identifying several hundred people suffering from illnesses and medical conditions displaying clinical symptoms which are considered to be characteristic of radiation exposure. To investigate the possibility that the symptoms were due to radiation sickness, the UMRC team collected urine specimens and soil samples, transporting them to an independent research lab in England. UMRC’s Field Team found Afghan civilians with acute symptoms of radiation poisoning, along with chronic symptoms of internal uranium contamination, including congenital problems in newborns. Local civilians reported large, dense dust clouds and smoke plumes rising from the point of impact, an acrid smell, followed by burning of the nasal passages, throat and upper respiratory tract. Subjects in all locations presented identical symptom profiles and chronologies. The victims reported symptoms including pain in the cervical column, upper shoulders and basal area of the skull, lower back/kidney pain, joint and muscle weakness, sleeping difficulties, headaches, memory problems and disorientation. Two additional scientific study teams were sent to Afghanistan. The first arrived in June 2002, concentrating on the Jalalabad region. The second arrived four months later, broadening the study to include the capital Kabul, which has a population of nearly 3.5 million people. The city itself contains the highest recorded number of fixed targets during Operation Enduring Freedom. For the study’s purposes, the vicinity of three major bomb sites were examined. It was predicted that signatures of depleted or enriched uranium would be found in the urine and soil samples taken during the research. The team was unprepared for the shock of its findings, which indicated in both Jalalabad and Kabul, DU was causing the high levels of illness. Tests taken from a number of Jalalabad subjects showed concentrations 400% to 2000% above that for normal populations, amounts which have not been recorded in civilian studies before. Those in Kabul who were directly exposed to US-British precision bombing showed extreme signs of contamination, consistent with uranium exposure. These included pains in joints, back/kidney pain, muscle weakness, memory problems and confusion and disorientation. Those exposed to the bombing report symptoms of flu-type illnesses, bleeding, runny noses and blood-stained mucous. How many of these people will suffer a painful and early death from cancer? Even the study team itself complained of similar symptoms during their stay. Most of these symptoms last for days or months. In August of 2002, UMRC completed its preliminary analysis of the results from Nangarhar. Without exception, every person donating urine specimens tested positive for uranium contamination. The specific results indicated an astoundingly high level of contamination; concentrations were 100 to 400 times greater than those of the Gulf War Veterans tested in 1999. A researcher reported. «We took both soil and biological samples, and found considerable presence in urine samples of radioactivity; the heavy concentration astonished us. They were beyond our wildest imagination.» In the fall of 2002, the UMRC field team went back to Afghanistan for a broader survey, and revealed a potentially larger exposure than initially anticipated. Approximately 30% of those interviewed in the affected areas displayed symptoms of radiation sickness. New born babies were among those displaying symptoms, with village elders reporting that over 25% of the infants were inexplicably ill. How widespread and extensive is the exposure? A quote from the UMRC field report reads: «The UMRC field team was shocked by the breadth of public health impacts coincident with the bombing. Without exception, at every bombsite investigated, people are ill. A significant portion of the civilian population presents symptoms consistent with internal contamination by uranium.» In Afghanistan, unlike Iraq, UMRC lab results indicated high concentrations of NON-DEPLETED URANIUM, with the concentrations being much higher than in DU victims from Iraq. Afghanistan was used as a testing ground for a new generation of “bunker buster” bombs containing high concentrations of other uranium alloys. “A significant portion of the civilian population”? It appears that by going after a handful of terrorists in Afghanistan we have poisoned a huge number of innocent civilians, with a disproportionate number of them being children. The military has found depleted uranium in the urine of some soldiers but contends it was not enough to make them seriously ill in most cases. Critics have asked for more sensitive, more expensive testing. According to an October 2004 Dispatch from the Italian Military Health Observatory, a total of 109 Italian soldiers have died thus far due to exposure to depleted uranium. A spokesman at the Military Health Observatory, Domenico Leggiero, states «The total of 109 casualties exceeds the total number of persons dying as a consequence of road accidents. Anyone denying the significance of such data is purely acting out of ill faith, and the truth is that our soldiers are dying out there due to a lack of adequate protection against depleted uranium». Members of the Observatory have petitioned for an urgent hearing «in order to study effective prevention and safeguard measures aimed at reducing the death-toll amongst our serving soldiers». There were only 3,000 Italian soldiers sent to Iraq, and they were there for a short time. The number of 109 represents about 3.6% of the total. If the same percentage of Iraqis get a similar exposure, that would amount to 936,000. As Iraqis are permanently living in the same contaminated environment, their percentage will be higher. The Pentagon/DoD have interfered with UMRC’s ability to have its studies published by managing, a progressive and persistent misinformation program in the press against UMRC, and through the use of its control of science research grants to refute UMRC’s scientific findings and destroy the reputation of UMRC’s scientific staff, physicians and laboratories. UMRC is the first independent research organization to find Depleted Uranium in the bodies of US, UK and Canadian Gulf War I veterans and has subsequently, following Operation Iraqi Freedom, found Depleted Uranium in the water, soils and atmosphere of Iraq as well as biological samples donated by Iraqi civilians. Yet the first thing that comes up on Internet searches are these supposed “studies repeatedly showing DU to be harmless.” The technique is to approach the story as a debate between government and independent experts in which public interest is stimulated by polarizing the issues rather than telling the scientific and medical truth. The issues are systematically confused and misinformed by government, UN regulatory agencies (WHO, UNEP, IAEA, CDC, DOE, etc) and defense sector (military and the weapons developers and manufacturers). Dr. Yuko Fujita, an assistant professor at Keio University, Japan who examined the effects of radioactivity in Iraq from May to June, 2003, said : «I doubt that Iraq is fabricating data because in fact there are many children suffering from leukemia in hospitals,» Fujita said. «As a result of the Iraq war, the situation will be desperate in some five to 10 years.» The March 14, 2004 Tokyo Citizen’s Tribunal that “convicted” President Bush gave the following summation regarding DU weapons: (This court was a citizen’s court with no binding legal authority) 1. Their use has indiscriminate effects; 2. Their use is out of proportion with the pursuit of military objectives; 3. Their use adversely affects the environment in a widespread, long term and severe manner; 4. Their use causes superfluous injury and unnecessary suffering. Two years ago, President Bush withdrew the United States as a signatory to the International Criminal Court’s statute, which has been ratified by all other Western democracies. The White House actually seeks to immunize U.S. leaders from war crimes prosecutions entirely. It has also demanded express immunity from ICC prosecution for American nationals. CONCLUSIONS: If terrorists succeeded in spreading something throughout the U.S. that ended up causing hundreds of thousands of cancer cases and birth defects over a period of many years, they would be guilty of a crime against humanity that far surpasses the Sept. 11th attacks in scope and severity. Although not deliberate, with our military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan, we have done just that. If the physical environment is so unsafe and unhealthy that one cannot safely breath, then the outer trappings of democracy have little meaning. At least under Saddam, the Iraqi people could stay healthy and conceive normal children. Few Americans are aware that in getting rid of Saddam, we left something much worse in his place. "

" This is why we did not hear much about the abnormalities in the babies. (Text books and medical journals are vetoed by the UN Sanctions Committee.) In the southern, beautiful, relentlessly bombarded city of Basrah where the biblical Tigris and Euphrates rivers meet the Shat Al Arab, the state of health takes another dimension again. One doctor has completed a thesis comparing the congenital abnormalities, cancers and malignancies since the Gulf War with Hiroshima. Dr. Jenan Ali has been keeping a record of 'mysterious' congenital anomalies. Her photographs for 1998 were chilling. Full term babies undeveloped, the so-called 'bunch of grapes' babies reminiscent of the nuclear testing areas of the South Pacific. A baby with no face, another with no eyes, twisted limbs, or no limbs. A tiny mite with a huge head - and no brain. Page after page of tragedy. "All young parents, with no history of abnormalities in the family as far as we can tell - since we have few laboratory facilities now" further, many she felt "not recorded in the text books - but we cannot be sure since we have had no text books since 1990." "

" DOES IT MATTER? ~~ "It can be asked whether the preoccupation of the media to blame DU for deforming babies should be taken seriously. Perhaps one should settle for wry amusement at the hypocrisy of the media’s attitude to the wisdom of the United Nations? There are, however, several reasons to object to the campaign. ~~~ FIRST, there are grounds to argue that the taxpayer might expect a national media outlet to seek truth, especially on so-called “science” shows. ~~~ SECOND, deformed babies should not be recruited for political ends. It is sufficient that normal ones be kissed for elections. ~~~ THIRD, if there is any truth in the dangers of global warming, not to mention the dangers of remaining dependent on Middle East oil, it is time for reasoned consideration of nuclear energy. Allegations of deformations distort debate. ~~~ FOURTH, we are at war with terrorists and we have troops in Iraq. The opinions of the men and women in the streets of the Middle East are of importance. Is it in our interests to have them believe the West is deforming their babies and clouding their world with toxic gas? It is hard to see how we could influence the programming of Al Jazeera, but our national media could refrain from collusion in the propaganda. ~~~ FIFTH, radiophobia, the unrealistic fear of radiation is, itself, a weapon of mass destruction. Though some thirty-one individuals died from the acute effects of the explosion in Chernobyl, over 1000 workers in the initial response are believed to have committed suicide for fear of the effects. Worse, up to 200,000 otherwise healthy pregnancies are believed to have been aborted in Europe because their parents suffered unwarranted fear of deformities after Chernobyl. ~~~ RADIOPHOBIA KILLS, and by promoting the idea that depleted uranium in Shoalwater Bay is a threat to the health of infants in surrounding towns, the ABC is promoting radiophobia. To allow the claim to be made that the deformations of a dead infant near Rockhampton could represent Australia’s first DU baby is an unscientific and cruel intrusion into its and other parents’ minds which could result in the unnecessary termination of pregnancies." ~~~ http://quadrant.org.au/php/article_view.php?article_id=1198 "

" If you didn't get your paycheck from the government, maybe you wouldn't have so much time on your hands to do research and mock everyone. Just a few more months, when all hell has broken loose, You can laugh in your bunker. And you will be just as jolly there too. Violence and death mean nothing to death worshipers. Your emotional response is usually a muscle twitch in the middle of the night. "

" LOL Dragonslayer. You make Leuren seem downright sensible! ~~ http://tinyurl.com/2zspmr "

" The religion of anti-DUism is a movement against Satanic cults, secret societies, corrupt institutions and agencies, and corrupted politicians. It includes presidents that have mock sacrifices to Magog. It includes death worshiping pentagon officials surrounded by satanic symbols. It is a fight against a suicidal president who is more loyal to his Skull and Bones Nazi Satanic bonesman than he is to the american people. If this is a religion to be anti-DU then it has come 50 years too late. OUR suicidal maniacal military and its political leadership which includes republicans and democrats alike are in the last few months of their existence if they do not change course. How do I know? Israel, US, and Britain are on a collision course with Russia, China, and Iran. Morality is on the side of Russia, China, and Iran for simply defending themselves. DU is only the symptom of an extremely sick government whose aim is suicide like the US made missile that hit the pentagon. The American People are going to fight this one out with the government, and frankly we need a little chaos too clean out the cobwebs and corruption. Lets start with the names of the senators and government officials that preach morality and sleep with whores. "

" Actually Kathy, I get my name and derive my Doctorate degree from this definition of skeptical: "denying or questioning the tenets of, especially a religion" ~~~ anti-DUism has all the hallmarks of a religion. It's taken on faith that it's a horrible killer, and any evidence to the contrary is angrily ignored or ridiculed. "

" Hey Skeptical, your not skeptical you're opinion is fixed, you are decided. I am decided too. I have read many medical papers (over many years) and I have seen some excellent documentaries on DU and Chernobyl (effects of ionizing radiation)eg: "the Doctor, the Depleted Uranium and the Children" - with Dr. Gunter and Durasovic, and "Chernobyl Heart" with Adi Roche of the Children of Chernobyl Project. The health effects from Chernobyl fallout and that of DU contamination are very similar. It is basic science. If your cells operate at 5-10 electron volts, and a particle with many atoms of uranium (or other radionuclides) lodges inside you, it will irradiate the immediate area with 4 million electron volts of energy with each disintegration. This massive amount of energy (alpha particle in the case of DU) does not travel very far, but it is enough to kill several local cells. If it doesn't kill them, it alters them, restructures DNA, acting as a catalyst and switches On or Off many biological mechanisms - all leading to disease. The basic fact that lead is considered to be terribly dangerous should be your first clue that DU is even more dangerous. Particulate effect of nanoparticles (in general) is an emerging science that has put the cart way before the horse. The DU nanoparticles are destroying the immune system mechanisms and "garbage trucks" (like the macrophages and lymphocytes) that detoxify our bodies. When the garbage of DU dust and all other types of challenges, like pesticides, mercury, etc. have free-run in your body... the diseases resulting from DU's destructive properties are unlimited. I am decided. I continue to look for the other sources of ionizing radiation that are contaminating our environments, sadly... many roads lead back to the military. There are other sources of radiation, ie: coal-power stations, nuclear power reactors-enrichment facilities, mines; medical compounds, waste incinerators, volcanoes, flaring of natural gas -(Naturally Occuring Radioactive Material - NORMs), ...like radon and the other daughter decay products of uranium. I hope that people will be allowed to thoroughly investigate their own situations, without nay-sayers blocking their inquiries. "

" Other culprits like this: http://tinyurl.com/28z7ad ~~ While this admittedly illustrates how the military can be tight with information, it also illustrates that a government sponsored study isn't automatically part of a cover-up or a white-wash. ~~~ I doubt you'll see much interest in this vastly more sensible smoking gun behind gulf war illness by Leuren Moret, because somehow the fact that the U.S. was only trying to PROTECT its soldiers from harm by SADDAM'S weapons doesn't fit in with the blame-the-callous-U.S. military-for-everything narrative. "

" There's a lot to be suspicious about when it comes to Gerard Matthew. First of all, Matthew has stated in an interview that his face "puffiness" and headaches started almost immediately upon arrival in Iraq, this being before he started driving trucks and presumably having any potential exposure to DU "dust": ~~ http://traprockpeace.org/audio/gerard_matthew_09dec04.mp3 ~~ Secondly, it's doubtful there could be any connection between whatever DU exposure he had and his daughter's birth defect. There has not been any correlation between increased birth defects and service in the gulf war for instance: ~~ http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/abstract/336/23/1650 ~~ I suspect that Matthew has been trumpeting this defect, which in all likelihood did NOT result from DU exposure, in a bid for sympathy and compensation, and is being willingly used by anti-war/military/nuclear groups for propaganda purposes. I don't really blame him for feeling this way, but I think he is being misguided. ---/--- Every one or two out of every 30 or 40 births results in a defect of some sort. However, it's telling that NO birth defects, and no health problems in general have been reported among the group of ~75 or so friendly fire victims from the gulf war, who likely did get a large concentrated dose of DU aerosols, and who no doubt did a lot of handling of DU weapons before being mistakenly attacked. ---/--- Is it POSSIBLE that Matthew's problems are related to DU? Yes, but it's medically way more likely that they are the result of any number of other factors. Should we continue to study DU and look for unknown dangers? Sure, and we are, but the problem with the hysterical and over-the-top approach employed by activists like Moret, and their use of a cute little girl with a birth defect, is that they are focusing blame on what most experts find to be an unlikely culprit, and are distracting from unbiased level-headed research that is necessary in finding whatever true culprits there are out there. "

" Please see http://dandelionsalad.wordpress.com/2007/07/18/us-veterans-and-depleted-uranium-du-video-transcript/ on the effects of DU "

" Internationally renowned geoscientist and DU expert Leuren Moret says in her really, really big paper, located here: (http://tinyurl.com/2m64yn) "The recent discovery that U.S. depleted uranium bombs dropped by Israel on Lebanon in 2006 contained enriched uranium4,5 suggests covert testing of fourth generation nuclear weapons." ~~ and ~~ "Uranium-235 was used to “spike” the depleted uranium bombs which the U.S. military gave to Israel to use in their attack on Lebanon in the summer of 2006. This would have the effect of accelerating the adverse health effects in the exposed population in Lebanon." ~~ however, the U.N. says: "The analysis results show no evidence of the use of DU-containing penetrators or metal products. In addition, no DU shrapnel or other radioactive residue was found at the sites investigated.The analysis of all smear samples taken did not detect DU, enriched uranium, or higher than natural uranium content. After an extensive investigation, including of sites rumoured to have been hit by DU weapons, it can be stated that the ‘bunker buster’ ammunition used by the IDF in the conflict did not contain DU, natural uranium or any other uranium isotope. carrying DU ammunition." ---/--- http://postconflict.unep.ch/publications/UNEP_Lebanon.pdf "

" Just read the report, Slayer. Not only this one but others I will link you to in the future. Then come back and tell me that Moret's scare-mongering is justified in any way, shape, manner or form. Tell me that it's not morally reprehensible for her to go on TV, quite obviously now misrepresent herself as an "expert on DU" and spout idiocies like "HAS to be because they were using live fire DU". ---/--- And let's not forget Allgire's uncritical approach to the whole thing, and AFAIK, lack of follow-up. ---/--- Here's more from that same report: "A more widespread contamination in form of DU-oxide dust exists but is limited to about a hundred square meters [30' x 30'] around the localized points of impact. THIS CONTAMINATION IS NOT DETECTABLE BY FIELD MEASUREMENT TECHNIQUES; the samples need to be analysed in a laboratory, where contamination values far below the natural uranium content of the soil are found. Taking into account the levels of surface soil contamination a significant risk arising from resuspension is EXCLUDED." ---/--- I'll give you credit for one thing though, Slayer. At least you've been willing to stay around and debate, unlike our "experts", Leuren and Elaine. At least you stand by your strength of conviction regarding your Pentagon "theory". "

" I really like your last comment skeptical. It is starting to sound like you are reaching a medium ground rather than an extreme position. Good for you, and I'm not being sarcastic but finally paying you a complement. I still want you to tell me how a plane can fit into a 10 foot diameter hole in the pentagon, or where did the wings go. Also, the plane that everyone saw flying over the pentagon dropped the missle. And if the evidence was so convincing, why did the goverment confiscate every single video from the most video surveyed building in the US. Take your time... :) "

" "In the alternative press, the electronic media and in reports from "states of concern" there have been and still are claims of a connection between the use of ammunition made of depleted uranium (DU) and a number of diseases and genetic defects among soldiers and the civilian population of the former battlefields in Iraq and the Balkans. In contrast, in the specialized literature, generally considered as trustworthy, nothing can be found which would point to a causal relation between uranium exposure and the incidence of diseases except at extremely high exposures, which can only be realized in animal experiments. Epidemiological studies, which stand up to a critical examination (peer-reviewed), show no statistically significant differences in the incidence of cancer between population groups inside and outside the former battlefields. In particular there is no evidence of a link between a contamination in the former battlefields and the occurrence of leukemia. Taking into account the abundance of uranium in the earth's crust, it is not to be expected, that due to the depleted uranium in the battlefields, an extensive increase in the uranium concentration will occur in the environment. In particular, the uranium concentration in the food chain will not rise to values representing a health risk. Selectively, on areas of about one hundred square meters apiece, "hot spots" may be found with contaminations beyond civil radiological protection norms. Depending on actual data, it might be necessary to take measures there. This concerns among others the ground water system where a contamination cannot be ruled out for good." -----//----- http://tinyurl.com/yveyfs "

" The first paragraph of the article that D.Slayer snipped from (http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27a/298.html) is thus: "Radioactive, poison gas made from uranium was recommended to the American Military in 1943 during World War II by atom bomb builders working on the Manhattan Project run by Gen Leslie Groves." ---/--- The nature of the fraud and/or ignorance of this assertion is explained here: ---/--- http://www.ntanet.net/traprock.html ---/--- Here is an excerpt: "The entire 1943 memo to General Groves is given at the link below. Because the characteristics of fission products are quite different from the characteristics of uranium, any competent nuclear scientist would not make the mistake of confusing uranium with fission products." ---/--- Also, more evidence of Leuren Moret's disinterest in anything (facts) that distracts from her "international" agenda. "

" I believe you got that snippet of fiction from this larger piece of fictional creative writing: http://www.hartford-hwp.com/archives/27a/298.html ---/--- The author, Bob Nichols, hardly has any kind of ulterior agenda. No, none at all. ---/--- "Bob Nichols writes in Oklahoma City and is occasionally a contributing writer for DissidentVoice.org, LiberalSlant.com, DemocraticUnderground.com, OnlineJournal.com, AmericaHeldHostage.com, and other online dot com publications. Mr. Nichols is a contributor to The Oklahoma Observer newspaper. He is a member of CASE—Citizens' Action for Safe Energy. CASE has successfully killed two serious, well funded attempts to build Nuclear Power Plants in Oklahoma and several attempts to site what is now known as the “Yucca Mountain Used Reactor Core Dump” in Oklahoma. All these efforts to build nuclear facilities have failed. CASE won every time." ---/--- Not to mention the fact that the article does nothing to actually prove that DU is a significant danger to anyone, other than making the assertion and expecting us to blindly accept it. Amusing how he has four "sources", but cites nobody for his "definition" of depleted uranium. That's some professional journalist. Propagandist, more like. "

" In 1973, in General Alexander Haig's presence, Henry Kissinger, the National Security Advisor, referred pointedly to military men as "dumb, stupid animals to be used" as pawns for foreign policy. (4) Kissinger set the public stage for the war managers to sacrifice the gullible, but patriotic and "stupid" American Troopers to the use of weaponized uranium oxide gas. American General Norman Schwarzkopf from the First Gulf War stated they were not told anything about harmful uranium munitions." "

" Weak nonsense you say. Hmm....well if simply pointing out that the (legitimate) scientific literature on the subjects of uranium, depleted uranium and uranium oxide aerosols is all pretty much in agreement that the potential for negative health effects from such substances is virtually non-existant is nonsense, then I'd like to know what dictionary definition of "nonsense" you're using. ---/--- Pointing out the scientific consensus on a subject, and raising doubts about someone with unproven bona fides who comes along and breaks with that consensus seems pretty darn sensible to me. But then again, I'm not an international expert who believes a DU-tipped Tomahawk missile hit the Pentagon, so what in the world would I know? "

" Instead of attacking me with weak nonsense do your research lame brain. Look up Jack Parsons and the OTO and the original atomic tests and their connection to Aleister Crowley, self-professed antichrist. Also check into how L. Ron Hubbard and the beginning of scientology has connections to this group. In a similar fashion, the mormon church was originally steeped in black magic and divination. Its just sheepish mentality to just go with the flow from what these groups have started. I know you are having difficulty accepting the truth but do your internet research. Your weak attacks on me will not change the past history of very sick minded people being involved in our defense department as well as the current Mormon Utah center of military industrial complex with companies like Boeing and the work of the Mormon Church. Your little world is crumbling all around you as your government is collapsing day after day from its own sickness and corruption. Go see a psychiatrist and take your medication. Get out of the way so real healthy minded people can help with the changes that will happen with or without you. "

" I said this earlier: "Perhaps the lesson here is that bias and extreme agendas are capable of selectively erasing certain vital parts of a perfectly good education. " ---/--- Little did I know at the time that there's a medical term for this: "Depleted Cranium". ---/--- http://www.depletedcranium.com/shame/ "

" So far, all I see is that same ol platter of pee. Show me some kind of credible proof that DU has harmed anyone other than those it has directly hit, or all your nonsensical mind games are nothing more than that. ---/--- Your desperation is obvious to me, as I'm sure it is to others who retain the ability to separate what is from what one wishes it to be. "

" Change happens through resistance, and you are changing for the better. "

" My "Hell-bent" agenda is nothing compared to the effect of DU on Iraqis or anyone else that lives in a contaminated wasteland. Everyone is a fair target if they get in the way of my agenda. Your narrow vision doesn't allow you to see the big picture. Hence, you are boxed in the corner with your narrow minded viewpoint, just like George Bush. This is why I have no problem stooping even lower than you by attacking populations on our own soil that perpetuate environmental injustice on other countries. Utah represents one of the most homogenous sheepish populations ever concocted on a religion that started in black magic. The atomic age was started by people professed in black magic. So it all works out that black magic and sorcery forms the basis of all the ills that we deal with in our times which include George Bush's own Skull and Bones and the Bohemian Grove. Everyone is fair game to me, and I know it just eats you alive. You know you are learning plently so you keep on reading. I am glad that I can help open your mind and educate you. I believe you have come a long way since we started as I cut and slash through the jungle of your monkey arguments. "

" Look in the mirror amigo, I think you know yourself best:) "

" Just keep right on, DS. Every word you type, every sentence, every paragraph makes it clearer and clearer that your argument, if you can call it that, is based solely on a political agenda, and not science or reality of any kind. But you're not alone. The same can be said of Moret and the rest of the pseudo-expert DU carnival. "

" My bigotry against mormonism is only relative to your bigotry against Iraqis or even middle easterner's in general. Your continued diatribe that DU is harmless is based on the assumption that bombing Iraqis is acceptable. Well at least I do not advocate bombing Salt Lake with DU even though it is harmless as you say. So our relative bigotry has to be put in proper perspective, or are your real good at compartmentalizing your bigotry saving it only for targets? "

" Sorry to bust your love fest....XOXOXO "

" So you're not only an ignoramus when it comes to radiology, and a 9/11 zombie chump, but a disgusting bigot as well. Why am I not surprised? If you ever come up with anything deeper than a platter of pee, please mark it with some big XXXXs, so we can find it. "

" Now Blaine our "Health Physicist expert" has revealed that he graduated from BYU. So Blaine is a god-fearing mormon, now that explains everything. Blaine doesn't have the capacity to question the US Military's use of DU. Mormons are as square as one can get. Mormon is short for "more money". That is mormonism in a nut shell. Also most urbanized mormons as compared to country mormons have no problem lying through their teeth to pursuade people to join their beliefs. Thanks Skeptical for putting all your eggs in the Mormon basket on the DU issue. You get more desperate every day to prove you are right. Who are you going to bring on next to prove your point? Some of us have lived in Utah and understand the mormon culture. If anyone questions mormonism look at Mitt Romney, would you believe anything this guy says? "

" Thank you Blaine. Your professional analysis of the "Gamma-Scout", and its inherent limitations in this situation is extremely valuable to this debate. It makes clear how lacking the report by Dick Allgire of KITV was in terms of simply accepting at face value the credentials and interpretations of Leuren Moret, who has yet to provide proof of her scientific ability to so confidently proclaim South Kona to be some sort of hideous radiological nightmare. ---/--- And thank you for your participation here. I hope that even more qualified individuals such as yourself will speak out within these Internet cauldrons of ignorance and often deliberate deception, in order to inform people about what is well and long established in the scientific literature as it pertains to DU. "

" Most health physicists have associates degree and certifications. Not all the uranium is excreted in the body and a percentage gets trapped in the bones, hence leukemia happens. As the uranium is excreted it destroys the kidneys. Uranium is as toxic as lead, and are you going to try to convince us that lead in nontoxic now too? Good thing you guys don't work for the EPA, otherwise we wouldn't need water quality standards or soil standards. "

" I am the retired health physicist who wrote the evaluation of the Gamma Scout. My credentials include a Graduate Fellowship in Radiological Physics at the University of Rochester, an M.S. In Radiological Health from New York University, an M.S. in Nuclear Physics from BYU, and Certification by the American Board of Health Physics. I have handled DU rods and decontaminated a house which a chemist used as a depleted uranium laboratory. You can trust my conclusions. Thank you “Skeptical” for providing the url for “A Review of the Scientific Literature As It Pertains to Gulf War Illnesses”. I went to the site (http://tinyurl.com/yujlpq ) and read much of the report. If you can't read the full report, you should try reading the “Summary”. Under “Conclusions” you will find this. “.....there are no peer-reviewed published reports of detectable increases of cancer or other negative health effects from radiation exposure to inhaled or ingested natural uranium at levels far exceeding those likely in the Gulf. This is mainly because the body is very effective at eliminating ingested and inhaled natural uranium and because the low radioactivity per unit mass of natural and depleted uranium means that the mass of uranium needed for significant internal exposure is virtually impossible to obtain.” Dr. Ron Kathren just delivered a paper on July 11th "Acute Toxicity of Uranium: A Brief Review with Special Reference to Man" to the annual meeting of the Health Physics Society in which he concludes "no human is known to have died from exposure to uranium." All the scientists I know are in agreement with these conclusions. "

" Naomi H. Harley, an authority in the area of radiation physics, obtained her Ph.D. in radiological physics at New York University and is currently a research professor at New York University School of Medicine, Department of Environmental Medicine. She has authored or co-authored more than 100 refereed journal articles on the measurement, dosimetry, and risk of internal radionuclides and external radiation, with emphasis on natural background radiation. She has authored six chapters in books dealing with radiation or toxicology and has three patents for radiation measurement devices. She is a councilmember of the National Council on Radiation Protection and Measurements (NCRP), an advisor to the United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR), and an editor of the journal Environment International. ---/--- http://tinyurl.com/yujlpq "

" Hmmm.... I think that YOU might greatly benefit from getting certified in health physics, Dragonslayer. Your statements about Iraq being awash in radiation from DU make it obvious you need remedial help. ---/--- With your ridiculing of the level of expertise of a health physicist, are you implying that there's some sort of consensus among people of an even higher level of expertise and understanding of radiation and how it affects human health that substantially differs from that of health physicists? (not talking about a consensus among anti-war, anti-Israel fanatics, btw) ---/--- You're an environmental engineer and you believe in all the 9/11 conspiracy nonsense? You AND Leuren? Wow. Double wow. Perhaps the lesson here is that bias and extreme agendas are capable of selectively erasing certain vital parts of a perfectly good education. "

" We will always have plenty of christian crusaders in the military who believe in creationism willing to handle and fire DU, sit on DU-filled ammo boxes, handle destroyed tanks that have been hit with DU without protection, shower in water that is contaminated with DU, drink water that is contaminated with DU, live in tents with DU dust blowing around outside, urinate DU, breath DU on and on. And when their day is done, these christian crusaders will pray to god and government for protection and to deliver them from evil. Is there an irony going on here when you have a problem questioning anything and don't believe in science? Its called survival of the fittest and sheep generally aren't considered very fit. When the christians return home, their government knows they are sheep so they tell them that all their symptoms are really imaginary and refuses to pay for health care. The poor sheep go home and wonder why they are abandoned by their government. Well the sheep's life is ruined now, and there will always be plenty of people that continue to deny the health effects of DU so more sheep can be sacrificed. "

" Are you familiar with how much education it takes to be a Health Physicist or Radiological Tech? Not very much. These people, athough they perform important functions don't have the educational background to be peer reviewing DU research. Elaine is as qualified as anyone even if she has a Bachelor's degree. By the way, no one answers to you here so get off your high horse. Do you think just because someone has a degree, you automatically swallow every pill "the expert" gives you? Are you one of those types that thinks that doctors are gods and should not be questioned? Sometimes education does nothing more than take away someone's ability to think and process information if it does not fit into the paradigm that they learned in school. Get off thinking that a degree is the only way that you can contribute to this discussion or nail the truth. If that was the case, would you even have a voice in this discussion. I once told Helabig that I had a masters in Environmental Engineering. Well, he came back with did you ever take a nuclear chemistry class or whatever. This is a never ending biographical witch hunt and a diversion from the real issue. Lets go ahead and get you back on track. I'll start. The US should not be manufacturing DU from spent nuclear waste. The US should not be providing Military AID and DU weapons to Israel so that Israel can commit genocide on all its borders. Even at this time, Israel is doing everything that it can to find a good enough reason to strike Iran or force us to strike Iran with DU weapons. Is there anything about Israel's existence that does not involve violence? Does your support of our continued existence and failure in Iraq after we bombed the hell out of them with our DU weapons somehow slow down the death toll that is going on day after day in Iraq? Or has your sheepish patriotic mentality numbed you to the fact that americans and iraqis are dying day after day even if we used DU during the initial strike to take out a few of the Iraqi's outdated tanks? Weak minded people hold to weak arguments ie not very much processing power. How come George Bush continues to BS you every day to thinking that things are really going to turn around in Iraq especially after the US has contaminated their environment with radioactive waste? Tons of radioactive waste in the form of spent nuclear material is equivalent to tens of thousands of nuclear weapons maybe not in killing power but in material. "

" I'm trying very hard NOT to jump to conclusions, Elaine. I'm giving you every opportunity to state, and enable us to verify, that you indeeed do hold a doctorate degree in science. You began to lay out your credentials, which you have explicitly used to aid your credibility, and they stopped at a BS in biology. Is it not only natural for us to wonder about the D.Sc? Now if you ARE an expert in radiation and how it affects human health, fine. But if not, have you sought out any certified health physicists to at least do an informal peer review of your articles? Because my lay impression is that what you imply about stored DU is extremely at odds with the current body of scientific literature on the subject. "

" Jumpers-to-conclusions of the world unite. Person ashamed of name, Skeptical, look in mirror to see who's playing hard to get. "

" Are we to take that to mean that you don't really have a doctorate in science, Elaine? Or are you just playing hard to get? I don't see any proof or credible documentation of there being cases of rectal cancer among specifically those that sat on DU boxes in your article, just an assertion. I assume you have such information and will link us to it. "

" To begin to understand why sitting on DU ammo boxes has caused rectal cancer in vets read: http://www.omahaimc.org/newswire/display/667/index.php In this case it's a problem caused by interactions due to stockpiling, not aerosol. Bottomline is it's about configuration. The smaller, i.e. 20mm, 25mm, and 30mm are serious problems the government are trying to hide. The item removed from Docket 18576 is available on du-watch yahoogroups files. Also I don't know who you are either. "

" Moret is assuming that the high readings are due to the range firing DU or to dust being immobilized from activity like helicopters, vehicles etc. It is perfectly possible that she got a reading of 80 millirems or more. This is giving her and others a reason to investigate further. This is why the army and health departments are going in there to the military zones and test do soil sampling. She is following through with logical reasoning to elimate a possible source of radiation. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to operate a geiger counter nor does it need to be calibrated. You shut it on, and choose if you want the reading in millirems or counts per second. No I did not read the paper, I just read Helabigs interpretation in one of his comments. DU or even uranium ore will give off plenty of gamma alone to show many times above background without having a 7 Kg hot rock sitting next to the meter. Helabig is trying his best to either attack the instrument or the readings based on technical diversions. "

" I highly doubt that any soldiers got colon cancer from sitting on ammo boxes, but I would be open to seeing credible proof of such an occurrence. As far as I know, there's never been any illness, much less death attributable to DU. ---/--- Hilarious how Dragonslayer seeks to compare my opinion regarding DU to that of a creationist, who's opinions are ridiculed by nearly every credible scientist/biologist, while at the same time embracing equally ridiculous theories about the Pentagon, and I'm quite sure the Trade Center Towers as well, which are also rejected by every credible scientist and engineer on the planet. Perhaps another angle? Just sayin. "

" Curious Dragon how you say you haven't read the report on the Gamma-Scout/DU by the retired Health Physicist when you were the one who brought up the 7kg figure: "Listen to Helabig's personal Health Phycisist to tell you how you have to put 7 kg of DU next to a geiger counter to get a reading above background.", you said below the other article. I had to go back and find where you got that, and saw the reference to needing 7000 g of DU to obtain sufficient Gamma readings to register above background on the Gamma-Scout. And no, he's NOT saying that a 7 kg chunk of DU wouldn't make a Gieger counter "scream", he's saying that the Gamma rays alone from that chunk, which are few and far between, wouldn't on their own cause any screaming, or anything at all. So be honest now. Did you read the paper? I listened to Moret. "

" Elaine, Thank you for shedding some light on your qualifications, however I'm confused on how you get from a BS in biology to a Doctor of Science. Perhaps you simply didn't include that part. If so, would you mind providing information on the specifics of your Doctorate, and the institution where it was earned, so that it can be verified? "

" OK this is good. We have Dragonslayer and Ms. Hunter both in agreement that it is not possible to differentiate between DU and any number of other possible sources of a high reading, which would include Ms. Moret not knowing how to use/calibrate her instrument. So I assume you both cringe at that rather confidently made statement by Moret: "That is horrendous. [high radiation reading from Geiger counter] And that could ONLY be because they were doing live fire with depleted uranium at Pohakaloa while we were doing the measurements." -- Moret on KITV TV report, emphasis mine. ---/--- But the truth is that Moret's claim is completely at odds with radiological reality. "ONLY because of DU" should read: "ONLY due to something OTHER than DU." "

" Skeptical, the gamma scout reads background radiation just fine. Of course it cannot differentiate between DU and any other type of radiation. No I have not read the paper on the 7 Kg that needs to be placed close to the detector to get a gamma reading above background. That is nuts. If you have pure DU sitting next to a detector, the instrument would be screaming high in the thousands. Even if you had a piece of uranium ore with 5% uranium it could be 80,000 millirems or more. I don't need to check the research because my personal experience knows better. You are not gaining any ground here clinging to Helabig's experts. He can pay off anyone he needs to say whatever he wants. If DU is so harmless, then why are solder's getting colon cancer by sitting on ammo boxes filled with DU? It would have to be screaming hot for this to happen. Also, I don't believe we should be calling it DU because it really comes from spent nuclear waste like spent nuclear fuel rods. Do you think there is actually some kind of standard to make the ammo less toxic? They are taking whatever materials they can get to make the shells. No one has convinced me that this is truly depleted uranium that has lower radioactivity, it is really spent nuclear waste. Skeptical, you don't need to argue the case with us to keep on allowing the US military to spread nuclear waste around our country and globe. Once again arguing with you is like trying to argue evolution with a fundamentalist christian. You will keep on clinging to whatever fits your paradigm. We are surrounded by the scientifically illiterate. 60% of americans think the earth is 6,000 years old. How can these same bible thumpers comprehend processes that evolve over 4.5 Billion years? That is why most of the army is christian crusaders because they don't question anything they cannot understand. This is a perfect situation for our leaders who don't even take care for the veterans that return from Iraq with DU illnesses. Even you Skeptical, continue to do the bidding for the military by denying the damage to the health of our vets. Personally, I am glad that the continued use of DU will destroy the armies that use it especially the US, Israeli, British, Australian, and Russian armies. It will ultimately end all wars, and your continued insistence that it is harmless contributes to the eventual end to all war. "

" While the Gamma Scout is insufficient to specifically identify DU as the radioactive culprit, it is highly sufficient to show: Honolulu, Washington, D.C., CDC, etc. that we have aserious problem with excess radioactivity here, wherever here might be where the Gamma Scout is used. As for fear-mongering, I'm not a fear-monger. I'm an alarmist. You betcha by-golly WOW. The purpose of an alarm to warn there is serious danger of some sort which needs to be invistigated and controlled. I won't call myself an expert, just someone who has done a great deal of homework/research on nuclear madness since the late 1970's. Also my BSinbiology includes cell & molecular biology, genetics and enough physics for a minor [chemistry & math, too for minors]. "

" That's hardy relevant, unless you're trying to admit that Moret is also indeed engaging in fear-mongering. I'd say they both did/are, however I seem to remember a pretty high-profile debate on the war issues, unlike DU, which most people have scarcely heard of. Could there be a reason for that? Could it be that journalists have looked into the issue and realized there wasn't much there? No, the point is that the Dr.'s opinion IS qualified, and THAT is why I tend to accept it. If Moret could demonstrate the same level of sophistication regarding radiation, exposure potential and the consequences of that exposure, perhaps I would accept her judgments as well. ---/--- But at least it appears like you've read the paper, is that correct? We're still waiting on Leuren, who seems to disappear whenever we want to simply ask that she prove her qualifications and expertise, and justify her methodology in a technical manner fitting of an "international expert". "

" First of all, fear-mongering is a specialty that was perfected by the neocons, and the Bush/Cheney march to war. I am glad that you accept an unqualified opinion about the gamma scout from the Dr. just because it fits with your preconceived protective mechanisms to be in denial. I can understand that self-preservation is a strong desire for sheople. "

" I think that Elaine Hunter, D.Sc., who has also claimed expert scientific status, needs to provide proof and documentation of her expertise in the fields of health physics and epidemiology. ---/--- However, it's at least heartening to see that she, along with presumably the whole health physics community, agrees that the "Gamma-Scout" is not the proper instrument to rely on for data with which to go on TV and YouTube and responsibly address the local community and the world about an emotional and fear-engendering public health issue. "

" You seem to have an outstanding talent for missing the point, Dragonslayer. Yes, of course the Gamma-Scout measures background radiation just fine, and again, I was really kidding when I said it was a toy. TOYING AROUND with it would be a better description, because to think that someone could come to ANY conclusion from whatever reading they obtained on the Gamma-Scout as to the source of those readings, unless of course they were right up next to an obvious radiation source, is silly. ----/---- I took the time to sign up for Mr. Helbig's Yahoo group in order to read the analysis provided by someone qualified to do so regarding using the Gamma-Scout for detection of DU particles in the air. I would urge you and especially Ms. Moret to do so as well. I think it's necessary for Ms. Moret to provide a technical rebuttal to that rather technical and convincing analysis for the reasons I layed out in my first comment here. I doubt very much she will, because I doubt very much that she has the technical knowledge necessary to do so, and therein lies my ultimate point. ----/---- But....we'll see. We'll see if she really is an "international expert", or if she's merely engaging in irresponsible fear-mongering for purposes of promoting herself and her extreme anti-war, anti-military, anti-everything it would seem agenda. "

" Skeptical, you have learned just enough about DU and radiation detectors to be filled with questions. I would defer to people that have greater expertise than you (almost anyone). Once again, the gamma scout measures background radiation just fine. It has a simple vacuum tube filled with gas called a geiger-muller counter. It reads in millirems. This is a state of the art device based on technology that is more than 50 years old. "

" Thanks Elaine for your continued efforts to try and connect the disciplines with biology in the case of DU exposure. "

" Stalking the Wild Radioactivity in Hawaii While I have no doubt there is excess radioactivity detectable in Hawaii, I do have some serious questions about the source. In one video I watched there is a military helicopter stirring a great deal of dust some of which would logically be deposited downwind . If that dust contained radioisotopes, some of them would get redistributed—downwind. However that does not mean it is necessarily from the use of concentrated “depleted” uranium [DU] ammunition. I’m not at all convinced that a "Gamma Scout" could pinpoint that a source of excess radioactivity is precisely DU; it’s not that sophisticated. I’m going to go way out on a scientific limb and say it is my belief that the source of excess radioactivity in Hawaii is the residual fallout from the testing of nuclear bombs, especially in the Pacific Islands and in China. And that fallout would have included DU, contrary to the opinion I read recently that not much DU was included in nuclear bombs. There’s plenty of evidence to the contrary. It was used as a neutron in most thermonuclear [hydrogen] bombs. Tons of of it. The fallout had to include DU plus a plethora of nasty artificial radioisotopes fission products. The fetal and birth defects death records for Hawaii from 1940-1986 bear mute testimony to my theory. I'm seeking away to give a voice. Yes, I extracted these data from the US Vital Statistics for Mortality and Morbidity, along with the same data for all US states and territories. It took months. Then I correlated these data with nuclear testing records. It took months. Hawaii and Colorado yielded the most stunning data once just numbers were graphed. These graphs have not been published. They are too big to put on the internet and I have no support to do it if it were possible. It’s all still in pencil. Here I will cite one disturbing example: the US bombed Enewetok, Marshall Islands, 4 times in April and May of 1951. We don't have government records for the Marshall Islands. We do for Hawaii. Hawaii entries for deaths due to birth defects from 1951 through 1958 were not recorded in the US data, even though they were present for the years 1940-1950. The US tested in the Pacific Islands through 1958. The test ban treaty ended testing temporarily in 1959. Back to the Hawaii data: the fetal death entries WERE present for 1951-1958. The fetal death rates for Hawaii soared from 14.0 to 25.3 [per 1,000 live births] in 1968, the year following what was possibly the “dirtiest” ever nuclear test, China’s 3-stage fission-fusion-fission test [plus 3 other tests in China] in 1967 Fetal deaths? Death of a fetus at 20 or more weeks. Also frequently lethal birth defects. Data is too much to go further here. What’s written above gives a great deal to digest. Many of the radioisotopes from fallout have long half lives—they are still there to be measured. There’s a huge difference between doing science and doing journalism. I don’t have the media savvy of Moret or Nichols, however I do have more biology and physics savvy than they or Helbig do. I’ve done much other rsearch that he chooses to ignore. [note this is also a blog response to 2 recent articles in Big Island Weekly]. DU and other radioisotopes/heavy metals are bad news to living beings what ever their source. "I'm quaking in my genes knowing the mayhem men manufacture" Elaine Hunter, D.Sc. "

" Why would anyone without a hidden agenda try to prevent testing our environment for DU? And when did having the state health department, who has a person in charge of radiation monitoring, become a big burden just to do their job? Has our government really eroded so far that hiding the truth has become part of their official work? These are the obvious questions everyone in this state should be asking. "

" I realize that the Gamma-Scout is not a toy, literally, but my suspicion is that it is not the proper instrument to use in order to detect the presence of DU "nano-particles". There is no mention of depleted uranium on the GS website, however they do answer a question about radon gas in their FAQ: ---/--- "The Gamma-Scout® can detect radon gas (alpha particles) although for best results we recommend you filter the air for several days and measure the particulate residue. Since radon gas is highly diffuse and emits an extremely low level of radiation, concentrating the particulate is the best way to quickly determine if there's a problem. If you are very concerned about radon we recommend also using a canister. This will measure over a longer period of time and will offer confirmation of any abnormal readings." ---/--- DU nanoparticles (also alpha particles, I believe) would obviously be even more diffuse than radon gas, so the idea of Moret waving around a geiger counter and coming up with "horrendous" readings supposedly from DU "nano-particles" seems scientifically erroneous to me. But apparently, she's the international expert, not me. I'd just like some verification of that. "

" Your primary misassumption, Dragonslayer, is that a missile range or battlefield is contaminated, I assume you mean in some sort of dangerous, uranium/radiation sort of way. First of all, it doesn't look like there's ever been any significant use of DU weaponry on the Hawaii site in question. But even if there was, numerous studies have concluded it would pose little if any risk to anyone's health. Nano-particles? Just the name dictates that any particles would be so widely dispersed and long gone as to be insignificant. Why, if these "nano-particles" are so horrifically harmful, haven't any of the dozens of friendly-fire victims from Gulf War I, who really, actually DID breath these particles in concentration close up and personal, felt any ill-effects, even after all these years? Why have no birth defects resulted, even among those with DU fragments still in their bodies? It's funny how when it's pointed out just how weakly radioactive DU is, that its detractors then resort to reducing the culprit down to stealth mode, where nobody can really detect it, but it's there, trust us, and it's a killer. "It does not matter if Moret is right about everything she says" Of course it matters. She is the one stirring up all this controversy, based on credentials she still hasn't detailed. But you give it away there. The true nature of the threat is unimportant, we have an agenda to carry out. Anti-war, anti-nuclear. The more you talk, the clearer it gets. ---/--- The battlefield is contaminated alright -- contaminated with agenda-driven misinformation and fear-mongering. "

" The Gamma scout geiger counter is not a toy, it is a state of the art precision calibrated instrument. Go to their website at http://www.gammascout.com/ Everyone should have one of these. "

" You cannot compare a uranium hazardous waste site to a contaminated missle range or battle field. Here's why. A uranium hazarous waste site like where I'm familiar has uranium in some sort of more concentrated yet natural state. Sure the background radiation is higher when at a hazardous waste site, but at least I don't have to worry about breathing nanoparticles of uranium oxide. When uranium that has been purified and then "depleted" is put on an end of a missle or bullet, it hits a target and vaporizes into nanoparticles. This is not a natural state of uranium to be exposed. This is a lethal state of uranium if you get a large enough dose for which there is good enough data to be suspicious that it is extremely toxic to all life. I would be on or live next to a uranium mine or mill anyday compared to a location that exploded and tested DU weaponry. It is the chemical reaction upon impact of the DU shell hitting its target that makes it an extreme health hazard. Now, add the very likely possiblity that it is not just pure depleted uranium but actually a mixture that comes from spent fuel rods and you have some very nasty material whose sole purpose is to not only destroy the initial target, but keep on harming the inhabitants of that location for thousands of years. Add to the fact that no one is going to be able to clean it up and remediate the site back to the way it was. I know this very well as I am trying to clean sites up that have controlled uranium milling processes and it is still very difficult and expensive to remediate. A DU site used by the military for testing or practice will never be cleaned up to any standard that would allow habitation ever again. So in my mind, it does not matter if Moret is right about everything she says, it does not matter. The point that we are all trying to make here is that we should not be manufacturing, testing, and firing DU weaponry here or anywhere else. The products at the end of the nuclear fuel cycle should not be used in weapons. Nuclear waste should be put in an appopriate storage facility. The lack of ethics exhibited by our politicians in the case of DU is a compelling argument for ending all development of uranium resources, and nuclear energy. "

" You seem to have totally missed the point -- again. My personal expertise on DU is not the issue; I'm not the one raising fears within the public without first putting forward my verifiable credentials for doing so, and without the proper verification and duplication that is necessary before such a serious action. ----/---- The cost of an innacurate assessment by Moret is undue fear and likely panic among certain people, the incalculable economic cost of the Island having taken on a tarnished reputation that would be totally unjustified, and the baseless sullying of the reputation of the military here and around the world. People who already hate us hate us even more, and try to do us harm even more, based on what I suspect is a wholly bogus issue. ----/---- If you're familiar with the uranium mining/processing industry, you should know that there have been little if any health effects resulting, especially radiation related, excluding underground radon exposure, which is an entirely different issue. ----/---- This is not to say of course that the uranium industry doesn't need to be cleaned up after, just like about any industry, but don't make it sound like the whole place is glowing orange with dangerous radiation, and don't try to connect this with some likely bogus readings someone got from their toy geiger counter in Hawaii, conveniently claiming that it just HAS to be from DU. -- http://tinyurl.com/ywcrt5 "

" Skeptical, you are not an expert on DU. Who are you kidding? Quit wasting everyone's time here trying to be an authority figure. I happen to remediate hazardous waste sites for a living. My current project is a uranium mill. You don't know jack about what it takes to clean up a contaminated site, nor do you really care. You just want everyone to think that DU in the air is like taking vitamins. Its good for you. No one believes you my friend. The more you keep up the act the more you are a joke to yourself and everyone who has to listen to your diatribe. Unfortunately, you aren't even entertaining, just intellectually challenged. Or even, another govt spokeperson compromised by your paycheck, which makes you very small minded indeed. "

" hi, warning DU is a dangerous ...Dragonbutcherslayer "

" Dragonslayer --- Thank you for confirming your sophomoric gullibility and your lack of ability to make a substantive argument. Now we're just waiting on Leuren. "

" ATTENTION!! Stand at attention Helabitc!! Repeat after me! DU is good! DU makes you stong! DU makes you secure! DU is not really DU. It is spent nuclear waste! It comes from spent nuclear reactors! It should be in a hazardous waste facility! Not on weapons that are fired in the US and outside the US! Not fired by Israel and supplied by the US! Not fired by Israel to irradiate populations to sterility and kidney failure in Palestine and Lebanon! Don't slouch your shoulders Helabitc! Stand at attention! The US does not need to be using DU weapons on firing ranges and its nuclear testing labs at Sandia and Livermore to depopulate american populations! Or do you have a little bit of environmentalist in you Helabitc? I can see a soft green spot there on your belly. Depopulation is good for the planet you say there Helabitc. Sorry I feel like we keep on misunderstanding you. Every day you get up out of bed and fight for the planet and a healthy environment for all struggling animals on the planet. What a dreamer you are helabig? working tirelessly day after day to clean up our environment. Where is your next target Helabitc? "

" See the new posting at DUStory -- it is in Adobe Acrobat so it can not readily be posted here. Blaine Howard, retired formerly Certified, Health Physicist, analyzed the Gamma Scout meter in depth and found that there is NO WAY that Moret could have not detected DU in the air over Hawaii. This is just another example of Helabig lying about what little science he does know and he never took a course in radiation measurement, geology of radioactive minerals, meterology or worked in these fields. He just loves the limelight and he has not sucked all of you in Hawaii in. He is not an expert on anything other than self-promotion. Mirrors are a b$tch from hell. "

" I can feel that the dark force in the universe is weakening with every moment that Helabig is confronted with his own souless march to death. "

" See the new posting at DUStory -- it is in Adobe Acrobat so it can not readily be posted here. Blaine Howard, retired formerly Certified, Health Physicist, analyzed the Gamma Scout meter in depth and found that there is NO WAY that Moret could have detected DU in the air over Hawaii. This is just another example of Moret lying about what little science she does know and she never took a course in radiation measurement, geology of radioactive minerals, meterology or worked in these fields. She just loves the limelight and she has sucked all of you in Hawaii in. She is not an expert on anything other than self-promotion. See Blaine Howard's excellent analysis of the Gamma Scout and DU. http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/DUStory/files/ Gamma Scout Meter and DU.pdf Why the Gamma Scout Meter used by Leuren Moret in Hawaii can not detect DU in the air 67 KB "

" Oh yeah, skeptical was the only person that was allowed to see the video of the plane hitting the pentagram, right skeptical. Tell us how they televised it for everyone to see the plane hit the pentagram, there skeptical. If you are so skeptical, then why do you trust authority so much? Doesn't really make sense to those of us that are really skeptical. At least you have a pulse. I will give you that. "

" LOL jojo. At least I HAVE an argument, which simply is that people who actually KNOW about DU and it's potential for harm DON'T conclude that it's all that dangerous. --- We're still waiting for verification that Ms. Moret is one of those people. --- And we're still waiting for her to expand on her brilliant theory about a DU tipped missile hitting the pentagon, instead of an airliner, and how that conclusion should engender confidence in the quality of her work on DU. "

" skeptical- your arguments are sooooo pathetic. You're lucky Dragonslayer found such a great foil as yourself. You obviously get paid by the govt to spout this crap. God knows Hawaii is full of those. DU is killing Americans living near military bases all over the nation. You ONI trolls are sooo ubiquitious. "

" Again, for those who may have missed it within my post on this paragraph challenged message board, here is Leuren Moret in the raw. Here is where she exposes herself to be a biased, agenda driven propagandist, to the point of subscribing to what only can be described as insanity regarding the 9/11 attacks: .... http://tinyurl.com/yqph4y "

" Gosh "Dragonslayer", we here in Hawaii know "kahunas" to be wise men. Care to rephrase? Now please, you and Leuren tell us more about that DU penetrator that hit the Pentagon. Give us an indication of your level of ability to separate fantasy from reality. "

" Roger, you must have one serious set of kahunas. And I'm not talking about your man breasts, but those huge balls between your legs. It takes a real man with your elephant-sized balls to stand up for truth in the face of all this discrimination from those of us with pure selfish means like Leuren Moret who are clearly cashing in on DU movement. I applaud you for siding with the government and military knowing full well that you are doing a great job covering their lies and deceit. You reward will be eternal damnation in Hell. What will that perverted paycheck be worth to you when eternally damned? What does someone without a soul care about being damned to Hell? Not much of an issue really....right Roger Helabig Balls? "

" DU is for population control in the middle east. Heaven forbid letting middle easterners use their own resources like oil. If we reduce their population and make their environment so uninhabitable that no one can liver there, then the pentagram goons will have succeeded. It is also good for population control anywhere you can get the public to swallow the bitter pill. Or we can go through our Orwellian lives and listen to Roger the Skeptic, and keep on drinking the kool-aid, or I mean, soma. One good thing about depleted uranium is that it destroys any military that uses it. Right Roger!? Half of US veterans since Gulf War I have Gulf War Syndrome. The Israeli army is destroying itself and its own population. If the Israeli Army had an option, it would spread DU to Iran also with the blessing from the Pope, King Cheney, and the Queen of England. Roger keep up the good work! Your patriotism is detroying major militaries around the globe. I get it now, you are ultimately fighting for peace. Sorry I feel like we have been misunderstanding you all along. "

" Northern California at Lawrence Livermore Lab is going through the same fight as Hawaii to stop DU explosions affecting their air quality, and property values. Hawaii and Tracy/Livermore citizens need to network and pull together their resources and keep spreading the awareness. The movement is gaining momentum. Go to http://tracypress.com/content/view/9956/2/ and http://tracypress.com/content/view/9867/2/ to follow the fight against Site 300. Let join the brave people that live in Tracy just 5 miles from Lawrence Livermore Lab where they test DU weapons. "

" Dedicated to my good buddy "skeptical" My evil twin skeptical has become completely lost in his own mind (Roger Helabig smells in skepticals comment). What Roger?, you had a psychotic episode and became skeptical instead of "Officer Helabig for his britches". You sound lost in the concrete military complex box with your tirade on educational credentials. "The goons" don't like the sunshine to shine in their concrete box. It burns their skin. Roger, I mean "skeptical", how about if you run out and get yourself an institutionalized education at the Psych ward. They won't need to give you a labotomy because you already lost your own will. "

" I am very impressed, Leuren that you have created such a fan with Roger the "Hellbig" always living up to his name. He wrote your biography there in his last comment. It is so obvious that all he does is act like an elementary school child calling names because he is so frustrated that his psychological game is failing to lead people who follow the truth astray. How does it feel Roger to gape deep inside that empty black hole inside your chest everyday you go to work at the house of Death Worship, the pentagon? How does it feel to walk the halls of the pentagon amongst all the souless dead little uniformed school children who aren't allowed to express their opinion even if they had one? Does that paycheck you get every month feel so good that you would sell out truth, and the pursuit of free life for even those that don't go to the same church as you? I am talking about that Satan worshiping church that you joined where you believe in sacrifice of humans and destruction of the planet just so your gasoline is affordable. What did you say?, "they" really don't pay you that much to be such an @$$? Does that make you even more frustrated that you are living on a government salary? So called "pentagon goons" like yourself deserve to be wiped off the planet. If we keep pissing all these countries off with the "Dick/Bush" foreign policy, and contributing to Israel's ability to DU all of its neighbors into its own collective suicide, maybe Israel or even Russia will do us all a favor and take out your house of employment with their nuclear weapons. Oh did we forget to mention to everyone that a DU Penetrator Cruise Missle hit the Pentagon and not an airplaine. Do you sleep cosy at night knowing that the US government can get out of control and attack itself? Would you say that Israel has never attacked the US and would not dare to do so in the future? Is there anything about Israel's existence that does not involve violence? Bring it on Roger, I miss playing with you like a cat toys with a mouse just before the kill. "

" I don't like the idea of radioactive contamination, who does? However, I also don't like over-hyped scare mongering, and after observing and studying this anti-DU movement, which is seeming so influenced by Leuren Moret, I'm strongly suspecting that this is their life-blood. Because there seems to be some question as to the true qualification of Ms. Moret for taking and interpreting radiation readings, as well as properly putting them in perspective regarding their origin and actual threat level, and because Ms. Moret is constantly referred to as an "international expert", and a "nuclear scientist", I think it's incumbent upon her to detail her past education, employment and research history such that it is possible to verify and scrutinize. I've never seen such a bio about her, only general and generic descriptions that may or may not support her oft repeated introductions. Another troubling aspect regarding Moret is her embracing of several ridiculous and thoroughly debunked conspiracy theories relating to the 9/11 terrorist attacks. This alone is cause for questioning her ability to separate science from science fiction: http://tinyurl.com/yqph4y The main reason for my skepticism regarding DU is that I've read several detailed reports by scientists/researchers who HAVE properly listed their credentials in fields such as radiation, health physics, chemistry, etc., and they pretty much unanimously conclude that DU is nothing close to being the devastating threat to world health that Moret and others make it out to be. In fact, most of the conclusions determine the probability of DU causing measurable harm to humans as being extremely low. You can use the Google Scholar search function to locate properly conducted studies. Some of us are content to trust that someone who describes themselves as an "international expert", or a "nuclear scientist" surly would never exaggerate or misuse those titles, but many of us are more wary than that. Putting forth unsupportable claims in the area of public health is a serious disservice, and I hope that people making such apocalyptic accusations against DU and the military are able to back them up with scientifically valid and peer-reviewed research, and with the credentials necessary to perform such extraordinarily complicated analyses. "

" google lauren Moret. She used to work at Livermore Labs. Do your omeworrk before you attack her like that. It's amazing how hateful Americans have become. "

" I see where Moret describes herself as an international DU expert. Moret is an international con artist. She never studied DU; she has never made any scientific discovery dealing with DU and she has never performed any scientific research dealing with DU or any other radioactive substance. Rumor has it, but I can not confirm it, that her last job before becoming appointed to the City of Berkeley's Community Environmental Advisory Commission was being the hairdresser for a City Council member. I can not confirm it because if she was she was not properly licensed, but then again if you lie about DU why care about a minor inconvenience like a license. I want whoever invited Moret to Hawaii to tell the world how much they paid Moret to come there. Who paid for the airline tickets; who paid for the hotel rooms, etc.? How much? Moret is not a non-profit entity as far as I know. Roger W Helbig rwhelbig at gee mail dot com "

" The DU is not there and it is not getting into the air or your lungs -- hello .. Moret may have cancer maps, but they have nothing to do with DU, just as Moret's previous claims that a worldwide epidemic of diabetes was due to US use of DU in Iraq. Moret parrots other liars like Chris Busby. Moret has not disputed who she really is, a failed scientist drop out who once tried to get a doctorate in geology, but probably found that science is not like political science; you actually have to make and record observations, not just spin lies and confuse the public. HELLO. Me, I am just me -- I work for no one in this venture. I am very scared about what people like Moret are doing by their continual drumbeat peppering the net with lie after lie. I am scared that they will convince some future terrorist (I wonder, since some of the suspects in UK are medical doctors, that they may not have already been convinced)that they should pay the US/UK back for poisoning their world forever. That is especially scary since that never happened and people like Moret put politics in front of science and peddle bad science fiction to an adoring public who wants very much to believe because they hate Bush. Surprise, I was one of those who contributed to flying the banner that the nascent Citizens for Legitimate Government internet group flew over the Rose Bowl in 2001. I was a dedicated internet worker for John Kerry and combatted the Swift Boat Liars. I even was commended for my research into the lies about John Kerry's discharge from the Naval Reserve. I most definitely am not a Bush lover, but I am a lover of America and I want to keep it safe and I surely do not want false information spread repeatedly around the world because it makes Bush look bad. That's not what it is all about. Roger W Helbig write me -- I will write back rwhelbig at gee mail dot com I have a lot of factual information to share and I can not attach files here. "

" > Reported in "The Enemy Within" (1996) by Jay > Gould, page 194: > > "The Nevada downwinders' suits were > unsuccessful. Despite winning > their case in the lower courts, the Appellate Court > ruled in favor of the AEC on > the grounds that the US government could not be > held responsible. At one > point, one of the lawyers for the plaintiffs sent a > series of interrogatories > to the AEC defense counsel with the following > simple question: Who has the > responsibility for the safety and welfare of persons > and their property near > areas of possible fallout? > "The AEC answered as follows: > " 'It is the responsiblity of the heads of > families and owners of > property to protect their families and their > property from possible radioactive > fallout.'" "

" U need to take sea vegetation from under the Sea, leaves, and hair from animals & people & send it to: doctors data laboratory 4 hair analysis doctorsdata.com They have an 800 number. Please call & ask advice of the Laboratory Clinicians please. They can scientifically advise U. Aloha KaiLai. NooN from Family Tree Farm. "

" I think there is always some truth to every side of every story. If the story happens to be 1. about a potentially deadly poison (alpha radiation in DU) which admittedly (by the military)was used at an earlier time, 2. has not been cleaned up and 3. is constantly at risk of being put into the wind-stream by current activities at Pohakuloa, then 4. only a psycho or a very nasty criminal would want to prevent the community from getting to the bottom of the matter. We have an excellent local guy from Maui, Mr Pang, who is experienced in public health issues and is ex-military. He can easily be the point-man for an independent view of whatever testing regime is undertaken. Not to undertake thorough testing with independent oversight would be criminal. And by the way, you politicians, no one is immune to this invisible threat, assuming that it is there. Your children and grandchildren are at risk too. So let's stop quarreling and do the right and smart thing in this case. The amount of money for measuring this problem is probably less than the government's monthly public relations expenditures. We can afford it. We cannot afford to stick our heads in the sand. "

" Hotter than you think! Lt. Col. Roger Helbig [Ret.] does his best to be the bane of the existence of activist concerned about concentrated “depleted” uranium munitions [DU]. Thank Heaven & various email providers for the “Block Sender” function! He has perseverance. He is not the only one. He is also not the only one who left the path of reality and allowed himself to be educated into ignorance. He has not done his homework. But neither have most military head honchos, or even activists, at least not on some very important and ignored aspects of this insidious, surreptitious serial killer “DU”. DU munitions are not as bad as activists think they are. No, no, they are WORSE. But don’t take my word for it. Let your fingers take a hike to http://dms.dot.gov click on “Simple Search” and type in 18576 for the docket number. This docket has proved to be a treasure trove of data from various horses’ mouths. Find docket entry RSPA-2004-18576-276. Oh, wait a minute, you can’t read that item any more. That item has been removed from the docket per Joseph Solomey, Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration, Assistant Chief Counsel, Hazardous Material Safety Law Division. Here’s why, the attachment included the following official government statement: “Pallet contact radiation dose rates are generally twice, and in one case, over four times the regulatory limit for Limited Quantity materials. However, pallet and modal conveyance dose rates at one meter are generally a multiple of three to six time justifiable Limited Quantity classification, and for one sized round, six to eleven times. In the case of this latter round, inappropriate radiation exposures could occur to transport workers by being in the vicinity of the material for just 100 hours per year.” Folks they are talking about munitions that are in TRANSPORT; munitions that have NOT been used in battle. There is a docket entry from Crane Army Ammunition Activity, IN, clearly stating that it is gamma radiation being measured. There are veterans who have gotten rectal cancer from sitting on DU ammo boxes! We know for sure particulate DU is not inhaled through the rectum and the ammo boxes do not emit particulate. The cause? Gamma, rays, x-rays, and neutron zipping and zapping out of the ammo boxes are the causes. Because of this, in addition to particulate fallout when DU munitions are used in battle, they are indeed worse than most activitsts think. "

" Lt. Col. Roger Helbig is a part of the psyops apparatus in the Depleted Uranium Office in the Pentagon. Criminal complaints can be made against the Pentagon DU Director Michael Kilpatrick MD, Colonel Eric Daxon, and harrassers Col. Bob Cherry and Lt. Col. Roger Helbig to the US Army Inspector Generals office at toll free 1-800-752-9747 in the Pentagon. Lt. Col. Roger Helbig can be contacted at 510) 620-6731, or ROGER W HELBIG(born July 1947) 1021 LASSEN ST RICHMOND CA home # 510-233-8206 Please give all of them a piece of your mind. They deserve to know what we think of them poisoning the global atmosphere with radiation which has a half-life of 4.5 billion years. AND its illegal as hell. "

" The gamma-scout can be ordered in Germany at this website http://www.gamma-scout.com/ but they may have a distributor in Australia. I am an international DU expert and scientist, and started this radiation monitoring project. I now have 3 provinces in Canada that also want to do the air monitoring. The air monitoring is the most important because inhalation of radioactive DU nanoparticles is a horrendous biotoxin, probably the worst known to living systems. We set up citizen air monitoring stations in their homes. The gamma-scout is about US$400 and comes with a 10-12 year battery, software to process the data and establish a database, and the gamma-scout can be plugged into the computer and left to monitor indefinitely. Lancelin is being overly exposed to DU and you can expect a very large increase in diabetes which is caused by the DU aerosols. The dust is traveling around the world from Lancelin, not just locally. In fact the DU and Uranium dust from mining in Australia have probably caused a 50% die-off of the Tasmanian Devil since uranium has been reported in the atmosphere on the West coast of Tasmania. http://www.tassiedevil.com.au/disease.html http://www.tassiedevil.com.au/devilmovie.html http://www.tassiedevil.com.au/docs/devilNews_May07_lowres.pdf The poor Tasmanian Devils get very rapid cancers on their mouths and die within months (immune system damage by the Uranium). DU is a global disaster for all living things. It has turned Planet Earth into "The Queen's Death Star". www.mindfully.org/Nucs/2006/DU-Europe-Moret26feb06.htm "

" to all who live near the ranges in Hawaii I know how you feel and I wish you all the best in your efforts to find the truth and get the military to stop treating civilians as expendable lab rats. we have a similar situation here in Lancelin Western Australia with US and australian forces using live bombs just 8km ( 5 miles ) from our homes. We are assured DU has never been used and will never be used but how can we believe them in view of the evidence in Hawaii and in Vieques. When Doug Rokke came here in 2003 he said he would be sure it has or will be. And there does seem to be a lot of people here getting cancer. What I need to know please is how to go about testing as you have done ? what does a gamma - scout cost and how far away from the impact areas are you taking the readings ? "

" fOR mOTIVATION PLEASE SEE : - http://liberty.hypermart.net/cgi-bin/blogs/voices.php/2006/04/29/death_made_in_america "

" Hi Hawains again - If the answers are YES , . . I hrard on C-Span from a long time Hill Secretary that E-mails and petitions are Spam to the Congresmen and Senators. - That only the re_election counts. - And that many many many little groups of 20 angry people CONSTANTLY at their private residences do wonders. - - - So all over the USA You need per State just 25 groups which is 500 persons per State which is usable and responsable and duty to save your children, grandchildren and all animals on this planet. "

" hI Hawains IS IT TRUE THAT JUST ONE BULLET PRODUCES OVER ONE BILLION AIRBORNE MOLECULES.? One molecule inhaled, does it mean absolutely death ? Does the molecule continue doing it after incineration of the first victim during 4.500 Million years , . . the age of the sun? Do we have the possibility to re_evolutionize our race during the next 100 million years - as we did after the dinosaurs ? How is BEE starvation in Hawai - They are so sticky and nectar is too - In Taiwan - where they exercize big big time Bee starvation is 92%. There where no US bullets or busters are exercized with, . . Bee Extermination is 0% like here in France. - (UK is 62%). Dr Moret : if Iran is B_Busted with DU will that be to much after Iraq and be the end of the human race within 2/4 generations. If so , . . Have these generals no offspring ? Why do they make Hitler into a Saint by comparison ? ps Dr Moret, If little people listen to you now, . . use the BEES in your talks. People are more sensible for Bees. "

" The only solution is impeaching the entire Capitol Hill harum. "

" The activists I know involved with the issue of DU contamination in Hawaii mainly want two things. One: For the public at large to educate themselves on this issue. Two: Testing, a comprehensive, reliable, ongoing monitoring of radiation around all active live-fire ranges in Hawaii. We want test procedures and results to be verified by independent expert consultants and results made available to the public. On July 27 at the Outdoor Circle in Kona at 7pm, the public will have an opportunity to educate themselves on the DU issue by attending the free performance of Ten Finger 10 Toes, a play dealing with the issue of depleted uranium. For more information contact me at tenfingers10toes@protecthawaii.ws "

" To Roger Helbig I believe we need a Super Bowl debate of pro and anti nuclear forces including the DU issue. I am the whistle blower for the Tokyo Electric Power Scandal with General Electric's Nuclear Power division,Japan's Ministry of Trade Inspection, and Tokyo Electric Power all involved with extensive lying so my faith with those organizations has been destroyed.I know Leuren and found her to possess brutal honesty which is what I am all about which resulted in my dismissal from GE's nuclear division. Roger, I hope you are not beyond treason, let's move forward with a nuclear Super Bowl. I can assemble a team with Leuren as one of the members. Carpe Diem Kei "

" In Southern Iraq, Dr. Jawad-Al-Ali, British trained head oncologist is reporting multiple cancer victims in families, with many individuals who have more than one type of cancer. The UMRC reported widespread sickness in Afghanistan after the initial bombings. Dr. Asaf Durakovic, former military colonel and radiation expert said the military asked him to lie about the effects of DU. Please go to highplace.blogstream.com for full story "

" The most disturbing thing about this is if there is enough DU to cause a radiation meter to respond, the deleterious effects of the element as a virulent poison, notwithstanding the radioactivity, are omnipresent. There are plenty of other choices for ammunition, but few offer the persistent damage that this curse does. All creatures and future offspring are in imminent danger. Tell your friends. "

" You stupid yanks thought you could cook the Kosovos, Iraqia and Afghans with impunity. Now you are cooking yourselves. What goes round goes round... "

" i have written to my georgia senators on several occaisions about du - specifically in Iraq. at first innocently asking if it's a problem. then mad. i'm on their "crazy" list. what they tell me each time is that it is "under investigation (i.e. du) and there is nothing definitive at this time." bastards. how can they live with themselves???? "

" Leuren Moret, Independent Scientist - I guess that means doctoral candidate dropout with so little scientific knowledge or acumen that she can not get a job. Moret's sole venture into "science" was as a graduate student in geology at the Lawrence Berkeley Laboratory where she had the good fortune to work under Professor Ian Carmichael and as the junior member of the team that included Jonathan Stebbins, now a distinguished professor in his own right in Geology at Stanford University. Rather than following these distinguished seekers of scientific knowledge, Moret dropped out of the doctoral program at UC Davis. She next was a Sr Scientific Technologist at the Center for Applied Scientific Computing or what appears to be a glorified laboratory assistant in the computer lab at Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. She also worked there less than a year. She claims to have been a whistleblower, but there is no record of someone as publicity seeking or outspoken as Moret having ever filed a whistleblowing appeal with the Department of Labor nor did any of the real whistleblowers from Livermore who I personally knew know anything about her. So, independent scientist means, not able to get a job, gadfly, publicity hog and scientific charlatan and now you Hawaiians have bought her act hook line and sinker. Did any of you contact the University of Hawaii to find out about the natural radioactivity of the volcanic rocks that make up your islands; I did and found out that there are a number of studies. I am continuing to background Moret. I know her to be a continual liar who has attributed all sorts of ills to DU and none of them are proven, nor even realistic to anyone with even half a scientific brain. You and your TV reporter Dick Allgire (he seems too ashamed to actually admit that he got snowed; well he owes it to the world to fully expose Moret and her stunt that is circling the globe at lightspeed on Youtube - Allgire admits that he does not know what the instrument was, whether it was properly calibrated, or what it actually was reading; he just accepted Moret at face value without doing a shred of background investigation. See DUStory Yahoo Group Files section for more on Moret and her cohort Douglas Lind Rokke And Ms Hello -- just because some liar tells you something is true does not make it so .. there is no DU flying through the air into your lungs .. there is radioactivity being emitted from the volcanoes every day especially during periods of active eruption .. go ask a physicist or a geologist who specializes in your volcanic islands .. go learn something instead of mumbling platitudes. "

" The cancer map I am referring to in the previous comment is published by the Hawaii Dept. of Public Health. The only two people who testified against the 3 DU bills in the Legislature in April were Maj. General Robert G.F. Lee, and the head of the Dept. of Public Health - Leinaala Fukino MD. The Military and the Dept. of Public Health are the LAST ONES WHO SHOULD MEASURE THE CONTAMINATION. They won't find it even if the island of Hawaii is solid Depleted Uranium. They would conveniently miss it. There is no choice left to citizens now but to monitor the radiation themselves and then take that data to court and force the Army to follow their own environmental regulations which require them to comply with county, state, Federal and Host-Nation environmental laws. They are completely out of compliance with ALL LAWS. "

" The highest cancer rates in Hawaii are downwind from Pohakaloa including the southern half of the island. The other location for highest cancer rates is downwind/downcurrent from the Navy nuclear sewer called Pearl Harbor - which means that Honolulu-Waikiki-Cocohead is very contaminated with low level radiation in the wind and washing up on the beaches. Radiation respects no borders, no socioeconomic class, and no religion. We are all Gulf War Soldiers. "

" This seems to be another case of the damage being not worth the clean-up. This is clearly a public health concern. The Health Dept. should investigate, at the absolute minimum. The DU is there and apparently drifting into public air and lungs. Hello!!! "